Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

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tsubaki said:
Yes, but it really annoys me how this context argument is deployed by people who often have contexts of their own.

I mean yes, we know people might go into hospital with something else and be found to have COVID once they are there. That doesn’t invalidate those statistics though - there’s still an impact on the hospital, often on the person as well and they can still die or be placed on a vent from COVID rather than what they went in for.

Everything these people seem to spout (and in many cases have spouted for nearly two years now) is aimed at minimising this disease, the impact it’s having and will continue to have. It’s this attitude that’s keeping us in the mire.
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Just based on the latest data from South Africa regarding Omicron alone (not the other variants), the numbers are incredibly high for people going into hospital with something else though mate, and the numbers for people needing high care is also extremely low.

That vid I posted above has data in from a few days ago, but that's the latest available. 337 people in the entire country (for this hospital group) on some form of oxgenation - just to put that into perspective they had 2,000 in the first wave, 3,000 in the 3rd wave. Then you've got 2% of that (8) on ventilators and 2 of those 8 were not in hospital for COVID but are severe trauma patients who have tested positive, but covid isn't the primary reason they are on the ventilator.

So I think with Omicron it's going to be really, really important to have this data available because there's going to be so many cases of it.
 
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tsubaki said:
Yes, but it really annoys me how this context argument is deployed by people who often have contexts of their own.

I mean yes, we know people might go into hospital with something else and be found to have COVID once they are there. That doesn’t invalidate those statistics though - there’s still an impact on the hospital, often on the person as well and they can still die or be placed on a vent from COVID rather than what they went in for.

Everything these people seem to spout (and in many cases have spouted for nearly two years now) is aimed at minimising this disease, the impact it’s having and will continue to have. It’s this attitude that’s keeping us in the mire.
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It’s fear. Self preservation and fear. Which is fair enough. People deal with this kind of thing in lots of different ways.
 
tsubaki said:
Yes, but it really annoys me how this context argument is deployed by people who often have contexts of their own.

I mean yes, we know people might go into hospital with something else and be found to have COVID once they are there. That doesn’t invalidate those statistics though - there’s still an impact on the hospital, often on the person as well and they can still die or be placed on a vent from COVID rather than what they went in for.

Everything these people seem to spout (and in many cases have spouted for nearly two years now) is aimed at minimising this disease, the impact it’s having and will continue to have. It’s this attitude that’s keeping us in the mire.
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To be fair here, the country has already minimised the disease by getting the vaccination!

Just to touch on your impacting the hospital comment. People go into hospital anyway, every single day. The impact isn't on admissions, it's treatment that the impact has. A room full of general patients has no impact on care but an icu full does, again context onto what treatment they need. On average 40 thousand patients get admitted every day, an average that is a pinch of salt as the data was a few years ago. So admissions again is here nor there , only when it impacts a service specifically as we have seen during the pandemic.

Impact wise on the patient, if the vaccine works in the 50 million , then covid won't have a big effect. Even people can be admitted and discharged with covid because no treatment is required. All of this plays into the data as well, so many differing factors.

Look I know if admissions increase in a way that we consider significant in relation to positive tests then yes that does have an impact. Even if those patients aren't dying , that does have in impact that we need to avoid. But we should now be filtering data rather than generalising it.

Otherwise we could hit a point in the future where covid admissions could be 'high' and reported as such but none of them require treatment because the vaccine and medication work. The same data again, but contextually , different to now, to 12 months ago etc.
 
BlueToff said:
Just based on the latest data from South Africa regarding Omicron alone (not the other variants), the numbers are incredibly high for people going into hospital with something else though mate, and the numbers for people needing high care is also extremely low.

That vid I posted above has data in from a few days ago, but that's the latest available. 337 people in the entire country (for this hospital group) on some form of oxgenation - just to put that into perspective they had 2,000 in the first wave, 3,000 in the 3rd wave. Then you've got 2% of that (8) on ventilators and 2 of those 8 were not in hospital for COVID but are severe trauma patients who have tested positive, but covid isn't the primary reason they are on the ventilator.

So I think with Omicron it's going to be really, really important to have this data available because there's going to be so many cases of it.
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@tsubaki sorry, 337 people admitted with COVID in this hospital group, not on o2
 
mill said:
It’s fear. Self preservation and fear. Which is fair enough. People deal with this kind of thing in lots of different ways.
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Not for the types spreading this - the “lockdown skeptics” like that arsehole Toby Young. He has been wrong since late March 2020 and yet is still banging his drum.
 
sbbefc said:
We need to get strict on covid passports. Enforce them and let the rest of us get on with our lives the best we can. But more than happy with mask wearing and minor changes to hospitality if combined with the passport if necessary.

These anti vaxxers will ruin it for the rest of us when they ultimately end up in A&E.
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Something that has increased during this time is suspected covid going into a&e. There has been a big increase on that front , no idea what ratio are or aren't acrual covid cases mind you.

But as you would expect , people have gone to hospital thinking they have it. Friend of mine works in that department, was a while ago he mentioned it but probably not changed much.

The theorist in me would suggest those patients could be passing it onto other admissions at the same time but I have no clue about that ?
 
Ghost Rider said:
To be fair here, the country has already minimised the disease by getting the vaccination!

Just to touch on your impacting the hospital comment. People go into hospital anyway, every single day. The impact isn't on admissions, it's treatment that the impact has. A room full of general patients has no impact on care but an icu full does, again context onto what treatment they need. On average 40 thousand patients get admitted every day, an average that is a pinch of salt as the data was a few years ago. So admissions again is here nor there , only when it impacts a service specifically as we have seen during the pandemic.

Impact wise on the patient, if the vaccine works in the 50 million , then covid won't have a big effect. Even people can be admitted and discharged with covid because no treatment is required. All of this plays into the data as well, so many differing factors.

Look I know if admissions increase in a way that we consider significant in relation to positive tests then yes that does have an impact. Even if those patients aren't dying , that does have in impact that we need to avoid. But we should now be filtering data rather than generalising it.

Otherwise we could hit a point in the future where covid admissions could be 'high' and reported as such but none of them require treatment because the vaccine and medication work. The same data again, but contextually , different to now, to 12 months ago etc.
Click to expand...

I do like how you pick on one or two words, decide what they mean and then ignore the rest.

The point about the impact on the hospital and the patient are around the measures they’ve got to take with COVID positive patients, and the potential seriousness of being COVID+ for the patient. You can’t just click your fingers and say “vaccinations! treatments!” and the impact goes away.
 
Interesting graph on England's "wall of immunity" driven by various vaccine profiles and previous infections. Get your booster like!

FGR63grWQAI0M4E
 
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tsubaki said:
I do like how you pick on one or two words, decide what they mean and then ignore the rest.

The point about the impact on the hospital and the patient are around the measures they’ve got to take with COVID positive patients, and the potential seriousness of being COVID+ for the patient. You can’t just click your fingers and say “vaccinations! treatments!” and the impact goes away.
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So if a bloke has a broken leg and also tested positive , what impact exactly is that man going to have on the service?

There is over 1 million cases a month with what, 0.1% admission rate?

Much the same way as the 1 million others don't need treatment , testing positive in hospital either before or after admission doesn't have any impact other than where to put them all together.

A patient admitted to hospital requiring treatment for covid is a different story altogether. You can't generalise positive tests like everyone who tests positive requires treatment. I know for a fact from my own experiences that if you don't need round the clock treatment then the only contact you will have is with the lovely woman bringing you a cuppa or your food whilst admitted.

It's not something you can just generalise. By all means if someone with experience came along and put me right on the matter I'll happily hold my hands up , not working in that environment and all. Just from going into hospital myself in the past, if you don't need treatment then staff usually are with those who do instead.

We just can't also assume that anyone with covid now requires treatment , because that just isn't true.
 
BlueToff said:
Just based on the latest data from South Africa regarding Omicron alone (not the other variants), the numbers are incredibly high for people going into hospital with something else though mate, and the numbers for people needing high care is also extremely low.

That vid I posted above has data in from a few days ago, but that's the latest available. 337 people in the entire country (for this hospital group) on some form of oxgenation - just to put that into perspective they had 2,000 in the first wave, 3,000 in the 3rd wave. Then you've got 2% of that (8) on ventilators and 2 of those 8 were not in hospital for COVID but are severe trauma patients who have tested positive, but covid isn't the primary reason they are on the ventilator.

So I think with Omicron it's going to be really, really important to have this data available because there's going to be so many cases of it.
Click to expand...
That sort of information was requested by the Tánaiste (vice prime minister) of Ireland and it was never given, I'm not sure what the need for keeping that information a secret is.
m.independent.ie

Varadkar wants clearer data on hospital admissions as Delta threat grows

Health experts have been told to exclude Covid-positive patients from daily case figures if they are not in hospital because of the viral infection.
m.independent.ie m.independent.ie
 
Ghost Rider said:
So if a bloke has a broken leg and also tested positive , what impact exactly is that man going to have on the service?

There is over 1 million cases a month with what, 0.1% admission rate?

Much the same way as the 1 million others don't need treatment , testing positive in hospital either before or after admission doesn't have any impact other than where to put them all together.

A patient admitted to hospital requiring treatment for covid is a different story altogether. You can't generalise positive tests like everyone who tests positive requires treatment. I know for a fact from my own experiences that if you don't need round the clock treatment then the only contact you will have is with the lovely woman bringing you a cuppa or your food whilst admitted.

It's not something you can just generalise. By all means if someone with experience came along and put me right on the matter I'll happily hold my hands up , not working in that environment and all. Just from going into hospital myself in the past, if you don't need treatment then staff usually are with those who do instead.

We just can't also assume that anyone with covid now requires treatment , because that just isn't true.
Click to expand...

If he tests positive for COVID, he’s got to be treated as an infectious patient the same as every other COVID patient is. They shouldn’t be on the same wards as non-COVID patients, the staff have to follow infection control measures etc etc.
 
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