Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Not really mate, an antigen or PCR test wont tell you whether you have tested positive for Delta or Omicron, just that you have tested positive. While Delta and Omicron are both is the community its unlikely you will know what variant you have unless you use, genome sequencing i—and you’re unlikely to get those results from your standard PCR test. Essentially all you will get is a positive or negative result, not what variant, until one becomes dominant and then you can make a reasonable assumption.

Anecdotally UK cases jumped yesterday, 50 -58k yesterday, so why that might be an anomaly, given the context you might also suggest that there is a fair degree of omicron already out there and in community transmission. Its inevitable really, its just the rate of growth now we can try stem to protect services.
Think that's a bit mixed up mate? The standard PCR tests are the ones used for the genome sequencing. However, I believe it's only a certain, random selection that they take to do the sequencing? I don't think they set up specialist centres for the certain tests?

Omicron is already around, 100%. Any figures you see of confirmed cases you can probably at least double, if not treble.

But as @Tubey says, this shouldn't be about case numbers, because it can't purely be driven by case numbers when this variant supposedly doubles in growth every 3 days. Because let's say there's 30,000 Omicron cases already in the UK, which is probably reasonable, then by this time next week you're at 120k, then the week after 480k etc. Be hitting 1m inside 3 weeks. So the hospitalisations should be the only thing that drives any further restrictions.

Unless they locked down right now, as in right at this moment, then they wouldn't be able to stop this thing spreading. And ultiamtely they can't afford to lockdown, no country can, and no country should be doing.
 

Under 5,000 people in the entirety of South Africa have been in hospital with COVID/Omicron (which is 90% dominant) this past week... Under 1,000 in need of higher care. 70% of cases weren't even people who went in complaining of COVID, they were people found to have COVID when they went into hospital.

Oh shock, it's Neil Ferguson again. The bloke who has been quite literally wrong about everything.
 
Think that's a bit mixed up mate? The standard PCR tests are the ones used for the genome sequencing. However, I believe it's only a certain, random selection that they take to do the sequencing? I don't think they set up specialist centres for the certain tests?

Omicron is already around, 100%. Any figures you see of confirmed cases you can probably at least double, if not treble.

But as @Tubey says, this shouldn't be about case numbers, because it can't purely be driven by case numbers when this variant supposedly doubles in growth every 3 days. Because let's say there's 30,000 Omicron cases already in the UK, which is probably reasonable, then by this time next week you're at 120k, then the week after 480k etc. Be hitting 1m inside 3 weeks. So the hospitalisations should be the only thing that drives any further restrictions.

Unless they locked down right now, as in right at this moment, then they wouldn't be able to stop this thing spreading. And ultiamtely they can't afford to lockdown, no country can, and no country should be doing.

That's been my argument since the half-arsed mask mandate, and why I refuse to wear one now.

Why half-arse it? You're either trying to stop something spread or you're not, there's no in between here because of how exponential growth works in a community setting - e.g. the home.

It's because it's not driven by science, it's driven by politics. The ability to say "see, we had a plan, we did the best we could" when the reality is they're just doing half-arsed stuff in order to be seen as 'doing something' so they can 1) justify the lockdown when it comes as a natural extension of those measures and 2) be able to tell an inquiry they 'learned'.
 
Think that's a bit mixed up mate? The standard PCR tests are the ones used for the genome sequencing. However, I believe it's only a certain, random selection that they take to do the sequencing? I don't think they set up specialist centres for the certain tests?

Omicron is already around, 100%. Any figures you see of confirmed cases you can probably at least double, if not treble.

But as @Tubey says, this shouldn't be about case numbers, because it can't purely be driven by case numbers when this variant supposedly doubles in growth every 3 days. Because let's say there's 30,000 Omicron cases already in the UK, which is probably reasonable, then by this time next week you're at 120k, then the week after 480k etc. Be hitting 1m inside 3 weeks. So the hospitalisations should be the only thing that drives any further restrictions.

Unless they locked down right now, as in right at this moment, then they wouldn't be able to stop this thing spreading. And ultiamtely they can't afford to lockdown, no country can, and no country should be doing.

You are kind of right mate, a PCR test itself wont tell you what variant the same way an antigen test wont, but a sample taken during a PCR test can be sent to the lab for sequencing - but that is a separate process. Not every sample taken for a PCR test is taken for sequencing, its mostly done on a sample basis to look at trends. Sequencing is done in a specialist lab and they couldn't cope with the volumes of the amount of tests being done in total every day and it wouldn't really serve a purpose anyway, beyond analysing trends. For example if a sample of samples are sent for sequencing and they come back as 95% omicron it tells us omicron is now dominant.

I think the mental shift, is away from case numbers and deaths, while you will be keeping an eye on both, you have to accept omicron inevitable, but we are in a different spot than last year with vaccines and boosters without doubt the anecdotal and early data, isnt the worst case scenarios. But the huge worry at the moment is the transmissiblity, rate of spread, exponential growth and capacity in services. Essentially they dont want this to spread wildly quickly and are trying to slow as much as it can, the fear is the surge and capacity in health services, thats what measures are trying to protect, thats the risk, but omicron is inevitable and here.

So case numbers will tell us a bit in regard to growth, exponential growth and the likely impact on services. Im not really sure case numbers and deaths were the two things, to focus on anyway, there are many data sets to weigh, and each tell us all a bit, i think governments and media tend to focus on case numbers and deaths when communicating with the public. A better metric and the one i look at is the positivity rate of swabs as per test done, that gives a much better indication than case number of the prev lance of the virus in the community, but not one stat rules them all, nor should one be totally ignored or disregarded either, one often feeds or compliments another, in my view, sure why would you or what would the value be in ignoring any of the data.

Xmas might be a mess and Jan/Feb could be hairy but we will be reviewing things closely, but id personally hope to get to March without a lock down if we're clever. Id hope we are doing enough in terms of mitigation and restrictions to enable society to remain open - with perhaps tweaking restrictions here and there.
 
Last edited:
There should be no lockdown because of how mild this is, and how the evidence is already there that a third jab/booster works towards preventing infection.

That's not denial, that's just based on the evidence we have so far from South Africa.

If Omicron becomes the dominant strain, which it seems set to do, it's probably a good thing as it's much less likely to put anyone (vaxxed or not) in hospital - but of course this is based on the data from elsewhere which is still in its early stages
Ah but the denial is in thinking the government won't impose lockdown. I agree it won't be justified, but how can we look at the speed of everything the last few days and think anything less is on the way? And once you start down that road its hard to come off it
 
That's been my argument since the half-arsed mask mandate, and why I refuse to wear one now.

Why half-arse it? You're either trying to stop something spread or you're not, there's no in between here because of how exponential growth works in a community setting - e.g. the home.

It's because it's not driven by science, it's driven by politics. The ability to say "see, we had a plan, we did the best we could" when the reality is they're just doing half-arsed stuff in order to be seen as 'doing something' so they can 1) justify the lockdown when it comes as a natural extension of those measures and 2) be able to tell an inquiry they 'learned'.
Yeah where I disagree is that I'll just carry on wearing the mask where I was (mostly) anyway; supermarket, going to the gym, on the train etc, but I was already doing that so it's not a massive issue for me. But I do get your point.

The lockdown probably will come and it's ludicrous, as are the draconian measures all across different countries.
 
Ah but the denial is in thinking the government won't impose lockdown. I agree it won't be justified, but how can we look at the speed of everything the last few days and think anything less is on the way? And once you start down that road its hard to come off it

Well it shouldn't be because it should be about hospitalisations at this stage. They've already said this variant is much more infectious and so could evade the vaccines more, so cases are of course going to be very high. But if it's not leading to an unsustainable amount of hospitalisations (which based on early data it shouldn't do but obviously we aren't there yet) then that should equate to no lockdown.

Plus, a lockdown would only work if done right now, and even that might be too late.
 
You are kind of right mate, a PCR test itself wont tell you what variant the same way an antigen test wont, but a sample taken during a PCR test can be sent to the lab for sequencing - but that is a separate process. Not every sample taken for a PCR test is taken for sequencing, its mostly done on a sample basis to look at trends. Sequencing is done in a specialist lab and they couldn't cope with the volumes of the amount of tests being done in total every day and it wouldn't really serve a purpose anyway, beyond analysing trends. For example if a sample of samples are sent for sequencing and they come back as 95% omicron it tells us omicron is now dominant.

I think the mental shift, is away from case numbers and deaths, while you will be keeping an eye on both, you have to accept omicron inevitable, but we are in a different spot than last year with vaccines and boosters without doubt the anecdotal and early data, isnt the worst case scenarios. But the huge worry at the moment is the transmissiblity, rate of spread, exponential growth and capacity in services. Essentially they dont want this to spread wildly quickly and are trying to slow as much as it can, the fear is the surge and capacity in health services, thats what measures are trying to protect, thats the risk, but omicron is inevitable and here.

So case numbers will tell us a bit in regard to growth, exponential growth and the likely impact on services. Im not really sure case numbers and deaths were the two things, to focus on anyway, there are many data sets to weigh, and each tell us all a bit, i think governments and media tend to focus on case numbers and deaths when communicating with the public. A better metric and the one i look at is the positivity rate of swabs as per test done, that gives a much better indication than case number of the prev lance of the virus in the community, but not one stat rules them all, nor should one be totally ignored or disregarded either, one often feeds or compliments another, in my view, sure why would you or what would the value be in ignoring any of the data.

Xmas might be a mess and Jan/Feb could be hairy but we will be reviewing things closely, but id personally hope to get to March without a lock down if we're clever. Id hope we are doing enough in terms of mitigation and restrictions to enable society to remain open - with perhaps tweaking restrictions here and there.
Yep that's what I meant mate - as in they take a random sample and send it off for sequencing. So it is just a normal PCR test as far as the person who is getting tested goes, and that process. It's what happens from then on that is different.

I hope you're right. I think a lockdown in Jan/Feb is too late as Omicron is already here. If they were going to lockdown and have it have any impact, it should have been two weeks ago - a snap 2-3 week one.

Now that brings with it it's own risks but I did say at the time that I thought that'd be the only way to seriously get ahead of it. I don't actually see the need to get ahead of this one as much though because the data is promising from South Africa, a country with much lower vaccination rates too.

As it stands, the general symptoms of Omicron are described as mild fever, a bit of fatigue for a day. No cough, no runny nose at all and no chest pains in most cases either. Most people who have it do not end up needing specialist care whether vaccinated or not. Most people who have it are better within 3-4 days.

If that continues to be the case (could be a big if, granted), then countries would essentially be locking down for a bit of a fever. And that isn't on.
 
They’ve not had a national lockdown, several state lockdowns (imposed early enough that they stopped outbreaks before they spread too far) and they’ve had 2000 deaths in total.

Also they are an advert for lockdown policy, not what I wanted to do.
tbf, many of the lockdowns were longer than they should be due to political points scoring by Labour States Vs a Tory lite ( Liberal) Federal Govt. And by vaxx hesitancy in lower income groups...those who couldn't work from home.

We're only following the science they said, what they sometimes neglected to mention was, it wasn't Medical science, it was opinion poll science...if it is a science.
As long as the polls were telling them that the people agreed with the lockdown And it made the Federal Govt look bad,
Well it was win win.
If the people were neutral (not quite peed off yet) but it was still annoying the Feds - win.
Once the polls showed the people had had enough, especially with some of the utter garbage the State Leaders were spouting...if it wasn't for Labour there'd be children dying in the streets sort of stuff.
Some freedoms got returned.
Whatever they did or didn't do with lockdowns, curfews etc, there were still 1000+ cases a day...they forgot to mention only, sadly, 4 deaths per day - all with pre existing conditions.
The main reasons Australia did so well doesn't have much to do with lockdowns.
With seasons 6months in advance of the North, being a well spread out population st the other side of the world, plus an ability to watch other peoples mistakes...and sometimes, even learn from them.
The Aussies got lucky.
 
Ah but the denial is in thinking the government won't impose lockdown. I agree it won't be justified, but how can we look at the speed of everything the last few days and think anything less is on the way? And once you start down that road its hard to come off it
If they try another lockdown I’d imagine at least half of the country would ignore it this time, eventually they’ll be forced to abandon lockdowns once enough people say no
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top