Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Ghost Rider]

From the guardian

Covid-19 is no longer a disease of the vaccinated, the head of the Oxford jab programme has said.
The “ongoing horror” of patients gasping for breath in hospital is now “largely restricted” to people who are unvaccinated, according to Prof Sir Andrew Pollard.
Even though the more transmissible Delta variant continues to infect thousands, most of those who are fully vaccinated will experience only “mild infections” that are “little more than an unpleasant inconvenience”.

Sir Andrew Pollard is seen outside BBC Broadcasting House after appearing on The Andrew Marr Show. Photograph: Tayfun Salcı/ZUMA Press Wire/REX/Shutterstock
Writing for the Guardian, Pollard said: “Among the general public, the pandemic is still regarded as a silent pestilence, made visible in the images of patients fighting for their next breath … This ongoing horror, which is taking place across ICUs in Britain, is now largely restricted to unvaccinated people.
“Generally, Covid-19 is no longer a disease of the vaccinated; vaccines tend to limit its suffocating affliction, with a few exceptions.”

Which is why restrictions make absolutely no sense. The only people you are restricting are the ones who refuse to get the vaccine.

Hence why the government aren't moving to a plan b, there is no need for one.

 

[Neiler]

What everyone’s thinking when they read my human rights posts on mandatory vaccines for health care workers! lol:

 

[BlueToff]

Said as much in the summer. The government gambled on people getting infected in the summer - and knew that most likely that would be younger people mixing - and getting that natural immunity in line with the vaccines.

Sometimes it's not always better to hide away.

Now, this could be speaking too soon so I really hope it isn't. I'm still very aware of how delicate the situation is but right now it seems manageable without restrictions (and should remain that way).

Also know that it's tragic how many people have died with this and it's not a competition of which way was better. I don't think any country has got it right.

 

[Neiler]

Said as much in the summer. The government gambled on people getting infected in the summer - and knew that most likely that would be younger people mixing - and getting that natural immunity in line with the vaccines.

Sometimes it's not always better to hide away.

Now, this could be speaking too soon so I really hope it isn't. I'm still very aware of how delicate the situation is but right now it seems manageable without restrictions (and should remain that way).

Also know that it's tragic how many people have died with this and it's not a competition of which way was better. I don't think any country has got it right.

I think geography may have a lot to do with mate, Austria, Belgium, Germany, Netherlands all share land borders. There is an intraconectedness there in terms of seeding, spread and travel. Also proximity and ease of travel over land from Eastern Europe where vaccine take up is very low in the majority of eastern countries as low as 10% in the some. I saw the range of vaccination by the WHO of Europe earlier and the spectrum in 10% - 90% the difference in some countries.

When we look at more Western or Southern Europe, theyveso been spared what we’ve seen in Central Europe. The U.K. and Ireland have had the same more or less growth rate since flu season has begun about 20-25%. While Portugal, France and Spain in the West are following the same disease profile as the our two islands as are Italy in the South.

I don’t think its a single strategy one country is doing to be honest, everyone seems to be falling a similar rate of growth depending on where they are. If you take the Island of Ireland as a microcosim of an approach there were 1931 for a population of 1.8 mill cases in the North today - they follow the U.K. policy. In the South we had 3893 cases for 5 mill. That said we’ve made some awful public health decisions in the south lately, we basically opened up at the end of Oct like idiots - the U.K. we’re right and that score, we also dont use antigen test enough, our Public health have called the, “snake oil”. Resulting in a breakdown of our PCR system.

So like you I don’t think any country has got this right at all, in fact most countries have learned absolutely nothing. We’re in a phase now, we’re we need to battle to hold this line until Xmas. Jan and Feb, will be a mess in my opinion and plans need to be in place now for it, because no ones stopping Xmas.

 

[BlueToff]

I think geography may have a lot to do with mate, Austria, Belgium, Germany, Netherlands all share land borders. There is an intraconectedness there in terms of seeding, spread and travel. Also proximity and ease of travel over land from Eastern Europe where vaccine take up is very low in the majority of eastern countries as low as 10% in the some. I saw the range of vaccination by the WHO of Europe earlier and the spectrum in 10% - 90% the difference in some countries.

When we look at more Western or Southern Europe, theyveso been spared what we’ve seen in Central Europe. The U.K. and Ireland have had the same more or less growth rate since flu season has begun about 20-25%. While Portugal, France and Spain in the West are following the same disease profile as the our two islands as are Italy in the South.

I don’t think its a single strategy one country is doing to be honest, everyone seems to be falling a similar rate of growth depending on where they are. If you take the Island of Ireland as a microcosim of an approach there were 1931 for a population of 1.8 mill cases in the North today - they follow the U.K. policy. In the South we had 3893 cases for 5 mill. That said we’ve made some awful public health decisions in the south lately, we basically opened up at the end of Oct like idiots - the U.K. we’re right and that score, we also dont use antigen test enough, our Public health have called the, “snake oil”. Resulting in a breakdown of our PCR system.

So like you I don’t think any country has got this right at all, in fact most countries have learned absolutely nothing. We’re in a phase now, we’re we need to battle to hold this line until Xmas. Jan and Feb, will be a mess in my opinion and plans need to be in place now for it, because no ones stopping Xmas.

very true mate, though I do think the UK has already had the 4th wave, it's just been spread out over months/weeks rather than hit all at once

Weather definitely plays a part too, absolutely.

I agree with your assessment. I also stand by what I thought a few months back - that now the illness is endemic it's going to be coming and going through countries in much sharper waves than before. If countries impose restrictions, then all that will happen is as soon as they lift said restrictions, another wave will occur. So, this probably is now the time that countries have to hit this thing head on - ultimately you need a good wall of immunity to do that.

Here's a vid you - and others - might find interesting from earlier this week. This doctor does some really good videos. He doesn't have an agenda as such, just goes into different reports and medical theories etc. Definitely raises a good question here about the potential use of Ivermectin as a treatment (and again, people should stop jumping on bandwagons thinking people were taking horse de-wormer!). We have to start exploring these potential treatments, both as an add-on and as an alternative to mass vaccinations.

 

[Neiler]

very true mate, though I do think the UK has already had the 4th wave, it's just been spread out over months/weeks rather than hit all at once

Weather definitely plays a part too, absolutely.

I agree with your assessment. I also stand by what I thought a few months back - that now the illness is endemic it's going to be coming and going through countries in much sharper waves than before. If countries impose restrictions, then all that will happen is as soon as they lift said restrictions, another wave will occur. So, this probably is now the time that countries have to hit this thing head on - ultimately you need a good wall of immunity to do that.

Here's a vid you - and others - might find interesting from earlier this week. This doctor does some really good videos. He doesn't have an agenda as such, just goes into different reports and medical theories etc. Definitely raises a good question here about the potential use of Ivermectin as a treatment (and again, people should stop jumping on bandwagons thinking people were taking horse de-wormer!). We have to start exploring these potential treatments, both as an add-on and as an alternative to mass vaccinations.

I heard about this a while ago mate, I think I saw a study or maybe something from a report on reserch by an immunologist I’ll see can I dig it out if I remember where I saw it.

There will definitely be waves mate you are right, it’s like the flu it will have an acute season. I think lock downs or restrictions have changed they are not so much to protect people - maybe they never where they are to protect health services. That why Austria and Neatherland jumped, NL are moving cases from their border across to Germany because they dont have the capacity due to their surge.

If we hold this line in Western Europe till Xmas wel have done a good job, if we get to end of Feb with a lock down we’ve done really well. Fingers crossed. Maybe I’m being pessimistic, or just trying to get the adrenaline going.

I think Govermemts we’re too confident in the vaccines, they do massively break the link between infection of death, but I think we walked straight into the winter, not thinking what a surge would do to health services. Shocking really as we’ve been here before and as you say lads like us can predict it on the internet.

We hopefully ,ightbhave a new tool next year in the antivirals,so that may help - though I hear the cost may be in and around 700 a course in the western world. Also I think vaccinations are going to get the green light next week will get the green light next week for 5-11 year olds, hopefully that will make a difference as we also progress the boosters - I think personally schools is a big driver of systemic infection, not in school but home- school and in and around.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Two-metre COVID-19 rule is ‘arbitrary measurement’ of safety

A new study has shown that the airborne transmission of COVID-19 is highly random and suggests that the two-metre rule was a number chosen from a risk

www.cam.ac.uk

 

[Brennan]

very true mate, though I do think the UK has already had the 4th wave, it's just been spread out over months/weeks rather than hit all at once

Weather definitely plays a part too, absolutely.

I agree with your assessment. I also stand by what I thought a few months back - that now the illness is endemic it's going to be coming and going through countries in much sharper waves than before. If countries impose restrictions, then all that will happen is as soon as they lift said restrictions, another wave will occur. So, this probably is now the time that countries have to hit this thing head on - ultimately you need a good wall of immunity to do that.

Here's a vid you - and others - might find interesting from earlier this week. This doctor does some really good videos. He doesn't have an agenda as such, just goes into different reports and medical theories etc. Definitely raises a good question here about the potential use of Ivermectin as a treatment (and again, people should stop jumping on bandwagons thinking people were taking horse de-wormer!). We have to start exploring these potential treatments, both as an add-on and as an alternative to mass vaccinations.

Japan only had 35% of the population fully vaccinated mid August, by the end of October it was above 70%, and the country had been in a state of emergency with severe restrictions until the end of September. Those are the driving forces behind the drop in cases.

There’s no evidence Ivermectin made any significant contribution to the drop in cases.

The man in the video is a nursing lecturer. He’s not qualified to be making videos endorsing Ivermectin or questioning epidemiologists who say it isn’t a useful treatment.

 

[Deleted member 48881]

 

[Dharma]

Japan only had 35% of the population fully vaccinated mid August, by the end of October it was above 70%, and the country had been in a state of emergency with severe restrictions until the end of September. Those are the driving forces behind the drop in cases.

There’s no evidence Ivermectin made any significant contribution to the drop in cases.

The man in the video is a nursing lecturer. He’s not qualified to be making videos endorsing Ivermectin or questioning epidemiologists who say it isn’t a useful treatment.

John Campbell isn't endorsing Ivermectin or questioning epidemiologists. If you care to watch his videos he simply reports the EVIDENCE.

By the way, there isn't any evidence to say IVM isn't an effective anti-viral and effective treatment for Covid-19. If you have it, please post it here
would be greatly interested to see it.

 

[tsubaki]

John Campbell isn't endorsing Ivermectin or questioning epidemiologists. If you care to watch his videos he simply reports the EVIDENCE.

By the way, there isn't any evidence to say IVM isn't an effective anti-viral and effective treatment for Covid-19. If you have it, please post it here
would be greatly interested to see it.

Double negatives now? Christ.

 

[grandjoeblue]

View attachment 146703

Sure I read something about this yesterday and fortunately it doesn't seem to spread as quickly as delta.

 

[BlueToff]

Japan only had 35% of the population fully vaccinated mid August, by the end of October it was above 70%, and the country had been in a state of emergency with severe restrictions until the end of September. Those are the driving forces behind the drop in cases.

There’s no evidence Ivermectin made any significant contribution to the drop in cases.

The man in the video is a nursing lecturer. He’s not qualified to be making videos endorsing Ivermectin or questioning epidemiologists who say it isn’t a useful treatment.

There are epidemiologists who believe it is useful - but vaccines are the first and foremost prevention.

Ivermectin or anything else that could possibly treat COVID needs to be trialled, but there does need to be some other solutions for treating COVID other than going onto a ventilator. If this thing helps then it needs to be tried out - not people screaming it down. That doesn't mean vaccines aren't the answer but as we all know being vaccinated doesn't stop you getting COVID. I have seen some other vids by the doctor and in none of them has he suggested you shouldn't get vaccinated.

If you watched the vid then you'll see he goes into a bit of detail about Japan's vaccination programme too and says that must be taken into account.

 

[Deleted member 48881]

 

[Neiler]

There are epidemiologists who believe it is useful - but vaccines are the first and foremost prevention.

Ivermectin or anything else that could possibly treat COVID needs to be trialled, but there does need to be some other solutions for treating COVID other than going onto a ventilator. If this thing helps then it needs to be tried out - not people screaming it down. That doesn't mean vaccines aren't the answer but as we all know being vaccinated doesn't stop you getting COVID. I have seen some other vids by the doctor and in none of them has he suggested you shouldn't get vaccinated.

If you watched the vid then you'll see he goes into a bit of detail about Japan's vaccination programme too and says that must be taken into account.

Knew i saw something recently on it, https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.27469

I think there are two studies being conducted on it at the moment, the atmosphere around it though seems very much like the Jury is out mate. Good these things are being explored though.