No that's literally the case, there is a barrier - if that person dies within 28 days of a COVID positive test, even if the death is very obviously due to dementia and not COVID, the statistic is recorded as a COVID-19 death. Dementia is listed as a co-morbidity.
Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!
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No that's literally the case, there is a barrier - if that person dies within 28 days of a COVID positive test, even if the death is very obviously due to dementia and not COVID, the statistic is recorded as a COVID-19 death. Dementia is listed as a co-morbidity.
Where in the article did it state that?
"While the most recent ONS report focuses on the primary cause of death, it also provides information on the underlying pre-existing conditions people who died of COVID-19 may have been living with, such as dementia."
Furthermore: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ulletins/deathsregistrationsummarytables/2020
Thanks for the follow up link. You are right, that second one would certainly suggest that for the majority of cases dementia is being listed as a co-morbidity.
NilSatisOptimum
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Playing with definitions on we may never with data provided by ONS and determined by DRs professional opinion, is the gateway to anti vaccines brigade, it's what they say all time, it's the main defence of their beliefs.
Tbf there's evidence that the early roll out might be playing its part here.
I posted a really good explainer thread on here the other day.
Ultimately that can't be known until we have data from other countries like France, Germany etc that were about 6-8 weeks behind in their roll out (but subsequently caught up).
Just as a note, weren't they all also saying this in July, and then it suddenly dropped off?
I know it's going into winter now, like
ForeverBlue92
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They are talking bollox.
No way cases double from now til December when everything is already open including Uni's and schools etc.
Dont underestimate the effects freshers week at uni's up and down the country would have done last month.
Yeah I think what is probably causing a bit more consternation this time, along with the seasonality, is the make up of the cases. Although the bulk are still in kids, and hopefully those should show a similar drop off as the 20 year olds did in July when enough of them have some immunity, there have been increasing % of cases in the over 65s as that excellent thread you posted showed.
and what it means for hospitalizations and fatalities compared to July
I think there is room for nuance obviously and it isn't the same awful levels as earlier in the year but I'd feel a hell of a lot more confident if the booster program was hitting it out of the park. Speeding up the kids vaccinations so they don't spread it to their parents/grandparents wouldn't hurt either.
BlueStevie35
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Hospital figures - 134 deaths were announced today, down 35 on yesterday and up 20 on last Wednesday. 89 deaths were in English hospitals, down 75 on yesterday and up 12 on last week. The 7 day rolling average rises to 110.14
All settings - for the 28 day cut off, 179 deaths were announced today, down 44 on yesterday and up 43 on last Wednesday. The 7 day rolling average rises to 135.86
For the 60 day cut off, 215 deaths were announced today, down 47 on yesterday and up 43 on last Wednesday. The 7 day rolling average rises to 162.14
All settings - for the 28 day cut off, 179 deaths were announced today, down 44 on yesterday and up 43 on last Wednesday. The 7 day rolling average rises to 135.86
For the 60 day cut off, 215 deaths were announced today, down 47 on yesterday and up 43 on last Wednesday. The 7 day rolling average rises to 162.14
Billy Dean
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Aye that’s true. Could be that the same fate awaits Europe a bit further down the line. Let’s see.
You beat the anti vaxxers with facts; you don't by just dismissing uncomfortable truths just because they're advantageous to their cause.
The stats are flawed, is what it is. Doesn't mean they can be dismissed, but they should be taken with a pinch of salt and as an indication of things rather than definitive fact.
As someone who works in statistics and have done quite a bit of work with ONS over the years, stats are generally imperfect, and choices about methodology have to be made on the basis of accuracy, availability, timing, utility etc.
This argument about death from covid versus death with covid has gone on since day 1, but the covid death stats appear to be reasonably robust, or at least as robust as we could hope them to be. There’s a variety of measures which are being used in conjunction - within 28 days, within 60 days, ONS death certificate stats, excess deaths in comparison to an average. From what I’ve seen those measures are all converging around broadly the same picture.
It’s very easy to pull apart methodologies, and find edge cases which cast doubt on a particular method, but if there was a major problem in these stats, it should have been evident by now via death certificate and excess death numbers being badly out of kilter with the ‘real time’ numbers.
Excess deaths is the most reliable one simply because it tracks the impact of a new disease. However, even that has problems because you then have to accommodate increased deaths due to the withdrawal of healthcare provision for other illnesses and disease. How many people could have lived if they could have seen a GP in person, or made that hospital appointment that was cancelled etc.
As I say, my best guess is the stats are generally around 15 to 20% off across the board, maybe as low as 10%, but I say that with absolutely no evidence because... Well, that's the problem isn't it?
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