Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[davek]

Never said that.

Ha Ha. More evasion.

You claimed @tsubaki was wrong to claim a higher place in the double dose table if Pfizer doses were rolled out with less of a gap between them.

Please eleaborate on why he was wrong.

Thanks.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Is it dangerous? Some countries such as Spain have mandated masks in gyms. It definitely makes it harder to do cardio but I don't know whether its dangerous.

You should definitely have to wear a mask at all times in the pub.

 

[Brennan]

Ha Ha. More evasion.

You claimed @tsubaki was wrong to claim a higher place in the double dose table if Pfizer doses were rolled out with less of a gap between them.

Please eleaborate on why he was wrong.

Thanks.

Nope.

 

[tsubaki]

In reality no, you can’t as you don’t know the full risks you are taking on. But there is a difference in my mind in getting people to sign up for something they know is truly experimental (as the volunteers who got the initial doses of all the vaccines) and a broad countrywide strategy of delaying dosages against the recommendation of the company who made the vaccine without telling them that is the case.

As for half assed - I guess it is in the eye of the beholder! And in general I think the UK has been pretty good on vaccines especially in priority of most at risk elderly - the decision to prefer them rather than front line healthcare workers for instance can’t have been an easy decision to make but I believe the data supports that approach. Similarly to use AZ on over 60s when there wasn’t full data.

But the specific strategy with Pfizer vaccine I believe has been poor and even more a huge missed opportunity. It would be great if for instance as a result of UK rollout we had data on after 9 or 12 weels weeks how many were single shot Pfizer recipients were asymptotic , symptotic or hospitalized compared to the two shot regimen. Since my definition of half assed is “lacking significance, adequacy, or completeness” that it why I still feel it is an appropriate description.

TBF the informed consent problem is for some quite a bit worse - there were a large number of people who did actually get the first Pfizer dose on the understanding that they'd get the second three weeks later. That was then changed by the government without any consultation with them or (perhaps more importantly) the medics giving them the vaccine.

What that means in terms of liability still isn't clear - one would hope that if it goes wrong (which we obviously all hope it doesn't) that the government would front up and admit fault, but I'd be amazed if any British government (never mind this one) ever admitted the responsibility for its own disaster.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It’s not

I want everyone to see who these guns belong to ffs.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

I actually didn’t, but ok.

Are you saying the person in the article is lying ?

No, it’s entirely possible that wearing a mask under a fencing mask may affect your fencing performance lol
Either way, I have no intention of visiting a gym for a long time. Covid breeding grounds.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Whatever next, a special Strictly Come Dancing just for vaccine scientists ?

Tbh, I'd rather scientists were celebrities than the people that currently are celebrities. I mean we're currently giving more air time to someone dying from Big Brother than we gave to the death of Maryam Mirzakhani a few years ago.

 

[Brennan]

er:



so what bit of that is incorrect again?

Because if you accept that the initial AZ doses helped towards the number administered by the 8th of January it isn’t possible that we could have been near the top of the second dose table a month later.

By Feb 8th we could have had around 1.8 million max with two doses, which would have put us at fourth the table, way behind the two leading nations per capita. We’d have been around 2.6%, the US on 2.9 and Israel and Bahrain way out in front.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

That's apocryphal. The vast majority of people aren't partying with 20 others in houses. They are law abiding.

Stop making up false equivalents.

Exactly. Some of us don't have 20 friends we could invite, right Dave?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Ha, I love Czech. They've opened up pretty much everything from Monday, but are keeping the law that says you're only allowed in a group of 2. Oh, and their latest health minister is a dermatologist.

 

[davmaher]

Ha, I love Czech. They've opened up pretty much everything from Monday, but are keeping the law that says you're only allowed in a group of 2. Oh, and their latest health minister is a dermatologist.

Are you saying that having someone with a medical background is a bad thing? I would have thought it would be helpful. We've got Matt Hancock. No medical background at all. He is good at lumping massive PPE contracts to his mates though.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Are you saying that having someone with a medical background is a bad thing? I would have thought it would be helpful. We've got Matt Hancock. No medical background at all. He is good at lumping massive PPE contracts to his mates though.

They don't have a SAGE style committee, so the health minister generally calls the shots and the last three appointments have been non-politicial. I'd just have thought that they'd have chosen someone with a background in epidemiology rather than skin disease. It's like putting Mo Farah in charge of Everton and saying "it's all sport - it'll be fine"

 

[tsubaki]

Because if you accept that the initial AZ doses helped towards the number administered by the 8th of January it isn’t possible that we could have been near the top of the second dose table a month later.

By Feb 8th we could have had around 1.8 million max with two doses, which would have put us at fourth the table, way behind the two leading nations per capita. We’d have been around 2.6%, the US on 2.9 and Israel and Bahrain way out in front.

Not sure that any of that translates as "Your dates on AZ are incorrect", nor am I sure why per capita numbers have made an appearance given that wasn't what was said either.

Even if we had only been at just those 1.8 million you mention who we know could have been fully vaccinated by February 8th - which as a reminder for everyone else is around 1.2 million more elderly and extremely vulnerable people fully vaccinated than we did have by that point - we'd be third in terms of actual numbers of people fully vaccinated.

Moreover if Pfizer only rolled out at the level you cite for the first month of the programme (so another 1.8 million people given Pfizer first jabs in the month from January 8th to February 8th), that is still an extra 450,000 who'd we'd expect to have had their second Pfizer by February 8th (given the 21 day dosing schedule). That would put us just above Israel, into second in terms of overall numbers given a second dose.

As I said earlier, I think that is an under-count of what we could have potentially been at anyway because of how the vaccination programme ramped up from the start of January onwards.

 

[Barnfred 55]

TBF the informed consent problem is for some quite a bit worse - there were a large number of people who did actually get the first Pfizer dose on the understanding that they'd get the second three weeks later. That was then changed by the government without any consultation with them or (perhaps more importantly) the medics giving them the vaccine.

What that means in terms of liability still isn't clear - one would hope that if it goes wrong (which we obviously all hope it doesn't) that the government would front up and admit fault, but I'd be amazed if any British government (never mind this one) ever admitted the responsibility for its own disaster.

Did that really happen?

My understanding was all those given their first jab before the government changed their policy were still given their second jab 3 weeks later

 

[spectateur]

But this is not everywhere. Principal regions are Ile-de-France (greater Paris).,hauts de France (the northern départements) and the côté d'Azur.
In my area of central France there were 8 new cases and an incidence rate of 78.6 per 100k..
Icu capacity is just over 50%.
Dont believe all you see on twitter.