Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
[
Barnfred 55 said:
Mine isn't an opinion though. I've never once said that Oxford were right to give the contract to AZ. Now that would be an opinion.

All I've ever said is that Oxford made it a condition of their suitor that they made the vaccine available at cost during the pandemic itself, and at cost to poorer countries thereafter. Do you think that statement is false?. If so, do you have anything to back that up.

Moving on from there, if you accept that statement is true, do you think that Oxford are wrong to want their vaccine manufactured and distributed at cost? Personally I think it's a very noble and benevolent stance to take.

The third alternative of course, is that you believe that Merck had agreed to manufacture the vaccine at cost but the agreement was stopped by the UK government. Again, can you come up with any evidence or reliable source to support this view.
Click to expand...

I’d accept the scientists intentions were to sell it at cost, but I know for certain the scientists weren’t involved in the partnership deals, nor the wrangling that went with the University or British Gvoverment.

I also don’t accept that AZ are selling the vaccine at cost infact there are very different price points throughout the world. I also wouldn’t accept the WSJ doesn’t have political or financial interests - I happened to live in NY for a bit.

The BMJ would be a far more objective publication https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n281

You keep going on about selling at cost as if that is a get out of jail card for incompetence, poor research data and the myriad of avoidable errors that have tainted what should been a world leading vaccine when clearly the above shows AZ are selling at different prices to different markets.

When we speak about altruistic intentions, it’s not just about price. You need a vaccine that works without risk, people have confidence in and can be supplied by an experienced company with mass production, with a global supply chain to meet demand particularly to those in the most poverty. Merck was that company and I’ve no doubt had they produced the Oxford vaccine it wouldn’t have been dogged by the problems it has been under the AZ partnership.

So in summary, the Oxford scientists are all good eggs - I don’t doubt at all their intention, let’s be frank though that intention got sucked up by a self serving entitled political system rank of vaccine nationalism (capitalism & greed) and forced a partnership away from the lead vaccine producer in the world to one with no experience to ensure domestic supply. I don’t blame the U.K. Goverment for that, it’s their job - I’m calling it as I see it. But that pathway and intervention in my opinion, has seen the Oxford vaccine dogged by issues - we all know about due to AZ incompetence and has hindered the core intention of the scientists to have a vaccine for the world. I mean they can’t even produce enough for the EU/U.K. safely or competently.
 
Last edited:
ForeverBlue92 said:
So for all us under 40's whats the statistical chance of a blood clot getting the AZ then?
Click to expand...
This was based on the Germany data that was used to suspend the rollout there:
Jebus_lives said:
The decision by those countries to halt the vaccine rollout is baffling.

I know that data is collected as part of the signal risk, but the German data is showing that 7 clots were caused against 1.6 million immunisations. So the rate is roughly 1 clot per 230,000 jabs (0.00044%).

That doesn't include the UK signal data either, which draws on a much bigger sample, which shows no increased trend. https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-of-yellow-card-reporting#yellow-card-reports

In fact, the UK data only indicates 3 cases - so fewer than you would expect by chance against the administered numbers.

I'd be miffed if I wasn't able to get the jab because my country has stopped the rollout based on this information.

Political decision making, not scientific
Click to expand...

Jebus_lives said:
7 reported blood clots vs 1000s deaths per day.

Ratio of blood clot to vaccine (German sample) 1 clot per 230,000 (assuming they're caused by the vaccine).

Ratio of Covid death for 20 year old 1-16000 - it gets much higher the higher the age range.
Click to expand...

Jebus_lives said:
Yes I also addressed that in my earlier points.

1/230000 blood clot
1/16000 Covid deaths 20 year old
Around 1/250 for 55 years
Click to expand...
 
tsubaki said:
the guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/society...ow-the-uk-got-ahead-in-the-covid-vaccine-race

sky news:

news.sky.com

COVID-19: Rejected contracts and a Hollywood movie - how UK struck deal to guarantee vaccine supply

As the row over vaccine supplies heated up this week, the UK government stuck to a simple line.
news.sky.com news.sky.com

the Mail:

www.dailymail.co.uk

Matt Hancock 'vetoed UK-US vaccine deal over Trump export ban fears'

The Health Secretary torpedoed a deal between the University of Oxford and American pharma giant Merck over fears that Donald Trump could ban exports of the live-saving drug.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

want any more?
Click to expand...
I'd pretty much covered most of that in my own post. I'm not denying the Merck was vetoed because of fears it was produced in the US. I said so in my post. It was your insistence that we wanted first dibs guaranteed. It could be true, it may not be. I don't believe everything I read in papers that are politically gender driven.

The main point I'm making is that the developers of the vaccine wanted it to be manufactured and made available cheaply and there was a lot of in-fighting within the University. The government decision on Merck made that a lot easier.

Do you think the government were wrong to veto the Merck proposed, deal given that the UK government have subsequently actually been proved right.
 
Barnfred 55 said:
I'd pretty much covered most of that in my own post. I'm not denying the Merck was vetoed because of fears it was produced in the US. I said so in my post. It was your insistence that we wanted first dibs guaranteed. It could be true, it may not be. I don't believe everything I read in papers that are politically gender driven.

The main point I'm making is that the developers of the vaccine wanted it to be manufactured and made available cheaply and there was a lot of in-fighting within the University. The government decision on Merck made that a lot easier.

Do you think the government were wrong to veto the Merck proposed, deal given that the UK government have subsequently actually been proved right.
Click to expand...

Well that is a kind of bizarre statement, given the sources I cited come from across the political spectrum but especially given who owns the WSJ.

In terms of the governments deal, yes I think Hancock was 100% right to not hand it over if there were no cast iron guarantees; Trump would have screwed us over completely, then sold us small amounts at a vastly inflated cost and finally boasted how smart he was.
 
peteblue said:
Fine, lets go with your figures...makes no real difference .....
Click to expand...

It kind of does pete - as has been said already, if these problems are concentrated in a particular set of people (ie women between 18 and 55) who also haven’t been getting vaccinated at the rate of people outside that set then we need to know urgently - because that might mean the rate of these serious problems occurring might be much lower than 1 in 600000, or 1 in several million.
 
tsubaki said:
Well that is a kind of bizarre statement, given the sources I cited come from across the political spectrum but especially given who owns the WSJ.

In terms of the governments deal, yes I think Hancock was 100% right to not hand it over if there were no cast iron guarantees; Trump would have screwed us over completely, then sold us small amounts at a vastly inflated cost and finally boasted how smart he was.
Click to expand...

Pfizer, Moderna and J&J are all American companies too though. The supply & safety issues have all been with domestically and EU based AZ.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

→ Log in 🔑 Register
🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top