Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[roydo]

...but if it causes cerebral embolisms they dont just keep on stocking on the shelves, do they?

One day, when I can be arsed, I will post the POSSIBLE side effects of just one tiny tablet Mrs R takes every day.

It was a page and a half, (A4, usual font) long, and includes embolisms.

 

[davek]

Ha ha Dave. Sophistry?. Definition, "the use of clever but false arguments, with the intention to deceive"

Well I can't be that clever because I had to look up what it meant. lol . And what have I said that is false?. Everything I said is in the SAGE minutes Dave. And I mean the full SAGE minutes, not just those that support your arguments. Yes Ferguson came up with the half million stats on 27th Feb. It was then that lockdown became an inevitability. They were then relying on Ferguson and his team to tell us when was best to lock down, and they couldn't have cocked it up more if they tried. 10th March, we're still 4-6 weeks behind Italy. 16h March. Oops sorry. By which stage it was already too late and we were firefighting.

I'm not trying to cover up any of the scumbag's crimes Dave. All I've said is that he followed the science in Feb/March and got it wrong, and he didn't follow the science in Aug/Sept and got it wrong again. How can that be covering anything up FFS. And ALL the evidence is there in the SAGE minutes to back me up.

As regards Dave King, you do know he was CMO during Blair's reign don't you. I'm surprised you're giving him the time of day. Plus he's possibly the biggest biggot I've ever come across in my life. He's the only panelist I've ever seen threatened with being thrown off the program on Question Time because he was interrupting and shouting over everybody, including the audience. Totally odious man. And most of the members of Independent SAGE are in there because they have been overlooked for the real SAGE. Our academia is full of brilliant but self entitled arseholes, who become bitter and twisted when their expertise is overlooked for something as big as this covid pandemic. I know who I'd rather listen to.

There's nothing in that post that undermines the view that Johnson was getting good advice weeks before locking down to actually do that AND LOCK DOWN (and I state again that he was a negligent disgrace in swerving COBRA meetings in that period...something you didn't take up, I notice).

He was being told about herd immunity AND he was being told about suppression as the way forward...but the herd immunity advice fell away weeks before he actually locked down in late March. He was not 'doing what he was advised' he was doing what he wanted: keeping the economy open for the corporates who fund his party and who they exist for. THAT is why we saw tardiness over locking down. THAT is why we saw excessive death tolls in this country in the first wave...the type of idelogical idiocy that was then practiced in the autumn when again we suffered mega death because of his reluctance to go against vested economic interests.

You've either been hoodwinked or you really are handing support to this disgrace of a government.

 

[davek]

If you're offering.

And according to the article,
"Cavaleri provided no evidence to support his comment."
he did not.

The evidence will be forthcoming: because the causal link is so strong. Patience. In the meantime the madness of giving life threatening vaccine to under 30s will cease. And that is right and proper.

 

[Barnfred 55]

...but we at least agree now that AZ has to be sidelined if a substitute is there.

I think there is now enough evidence to suggest there is a connection between the AZ vaccine and low blood platelets, and it at least needs investigating further. The numbers are so low though that you wouldn't have expected it to have been picked up during the vaccine trials.

But the case numbers linked to AZ are a lot higher than with other vaccines. The other interesting stat is that the overwhelming majority of cases are women with quite a big age range of 20-55. I say interesting, because we also know that the contraceptive pill is also known to come with a risk of low blood platelets. Obviously I'm not an expert in this field, but I wouldn't be shocked if it turn out that AZ vaccine may be reacting with some women who are currently taking, or have been taking within the last few years, a certain make of contraception pill.

In any case, we know these very rare occurrences are happening principally in women so we can factor this into our vaccine planning going forward. My personal opinion is that the occurrences are so rare that countries shouldn't be interrupting the vaccination process as people are far more at risk from low platelets from catching the covid virus. But as different vaccines come on board, they can plan so those at risk of blood clotting, ie younger women, are offered different vaccine.

I see the AZ vaccine as the main route out of the pandemic for the poorer countries, seeing as it's the only none profit making one on the market. If this contraception pill theory play out, or something similar, it probably won't effect any of those countries anyway.

 

[davek]

One day, when I can be arsed, I will post the POSSIBLE side effects of just one tiny tablet Mrs R takes every day.

It was a page and a half, (A4, usual font) long, and includes embolisms.

That vaccine is getting wheeled out to service half the world's population. I suggest it might be a good idea that we get it right and not kill loads of people before then. That is the conclusion reached by the experts. You remember them...they're the people you told me we have to defer to and not declare our own views as facts.

 

[grandjoeblue]

They do mate, hence the way the 5 a day is pushed everywhere.

I don't think the link between obesity and covid related death has been that widely reported. Obesity and old age does increase your chance of hospitalisation massively.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Modelling is not "a wild guess".

Just across the channel they are in the teeth of a deadly 3rd wave.

Stay in la-la land if you want. But this summer will be carnage if the restrictions are taken off by late June.

I'm not in la-la land. You are. Because you refuse to accept what I said about the word 'could'. It is conditional tense. In the sentence that was quoted, it is no more than a guess at what MIGHT happen. If you wish to set great store by such pronouncements, fine. But don't try to convince me and others that what is predicted is 100% correct, because that is all it is - a prediction, nothing else...

And furthermore, you appear to take great joy in stating the latest death toll. The figures you quote are those where the Government says a positive test showed within the 28 days prior to death. What the Government does NOT tell us, is what they died of. They never have. Some of those deaths were likely to be from health issues without covid playing any part - issues where the individual would have died anyway (i.e. terminal cancer, heart attack, pneumonia). So to glibly quote such figures all the time without any in-depth details of the actual deaths simply shows the shallowness of your observation.

 

[Goat]

And furthermore, you appear to take great joy in stating the latest death toll. The figures you quote are those where the Government says a positive test showed within the 28 days prior to death. What the Government does NOT tell us, is what they died of. They never have. Some of those deaths were likely to be from health issues without covid playing any part - issues where the individual would have died anyway (i.e. terminal cancer, heart attack, pneumonia). So to glibly quote such figures all the time without any in-depth details of the actual deaths simply shows the shallowness of your observation.

Oh God, not this again.....................

 

[davek]

I think there is now enough evidence to suggest there is a connection between the AZ vaccine and low blood platelets, and it at least needs investigating further. The numbers are so low though that you wouldn't have expected it to have been picked up during the vaccine trials.

But the case numbers linked to AZ are a lot higher than with other vaccines. The other interesting stat is that the overwhelming majority of cases are women with quite a big age range of 20-55. I say interesting, because we also know that the contraceptive pill is also known to come with a risk of low blood platelets. Obviously I'm not an expert in this field, but I wouldn't be shocked if it turn out that AZ vaccine may be reacting with some women who are currently taking, or have been taking within the last few years, a certain make of contraception pill.

In any case, we know these very rare occurrences are happening principally in women so we can factor this into our vaccine planning going forward. My personal opinion is that the occurrences are so rare that countries shouldn't be interrupting the vaccination process as people are far more at risk from low platelets from catching the covid virus. But as different vaccines come on board, they can plan so those at risk of blood clotting, ie younger women, are offered different vaccine.

I see the AZ vaccine as the main route out of the pandemic for the poorer countries, seeing as it's the only none profit making one on the market. If this contraception pill theory play out, or something similar, it probably won't effect any of those countries anyway.

Determining whom it's happening to and why it's happening to them is the whole point of the exercise of investigation. That's already bearing fruit and will furnish more detailed explanations soon enough. Until then, sideline it for the demographic they do know it's happening to, hand them a different vaccine and carry on with the AZ vaccine. Ilm sure that, like myself, those not in that demographic will not now be concerned with getting a first or second AZ jab.

But the most important thing has now happened: an acknowledgement of a link and a problem. Something some here were adamant wouldn't happen.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Not talking in certainties does not mean they're guessing. End of!

When they use the conditional tense, it does. The word 'could' imports with it in any sentence only the likelihood of something happening at sometime in the future. It implies a possibility, solely. In other words, they are guessing that (in this case) something MIGHT happen again. They are covering their backs in case it does. It's a standard thing to do by the Government, or any of its associated agents. Always has been...

 

[Terrarian]

They do mate, hence the way the 5 a day is pushed everywhere.

I mean now during the pandemic really informing people how they can boost their immune system, what types of vitamins are needed etc.

 

[Goat]

Determining whom it's happening to and why it's happening to them is the whole point of the exercise of investigation. That's already bearing fruit and will furnish more detailed explanations soon enough. Until then, sideline it for the demographic they do know it's happening to, hand them a different vaccine and carry on with the AZ vaccine. Ilm sure that, like myself, if those not in that demographic will not now be concerned with getting a first or second AZ jab.

But the most important thing has now happened: an acknowledgement of a link and a problem. Something some here were adamant wouldn't happen.

But we don't have any other vaccines Dave cos those Euro Ferrets are taking them for themselves whilst their countries burn to the ground cos the useless clowns cant even stick needles in people.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Oh God, not this again.....................

Yep. Can you tell me, then? Every single death due to covid? Man, you must still believe in the magic bullet & Kennedy...

 

[davek]

But we don't have any other vaccines Dave cos those Euro Ferrets are taking them for themselves whilst their countries burn to the ground cos the useless clowns cant even stick needles in people.

The Moderna vaccine will start in April. The numbers affected badly by the AZ vaccine wont overwhelm the numbers received from that source. If that's not possible they that cohort will have to wait.

 

[Terrarian]

...but if it causes cerebral embolisms they dont just keep on stocking on the shelves, do they?

If you read the information leaflet on any medication it can be quite scary the side effects listed but it's very rare, I don't think we will ever get a 100% safe anything medical wise.