Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[tsubaki]

Are New Zealand going to ban visitors for the rest of time?

Are Australia going to demand a 2-week quarantine and go into snap lockdowns if there's 3 cases?

Are Thailand going to go the rest of time shutting down when there's a single case, as was the case in December?

Of course they aren't.

Have the measures they have taken been 'successful' in managing the virus - yes they have, and they should provide glowing examples of how to do it. But... they still need the vaccine. Or they'll be stuck in a state of perpetual restrictions or wholesale, invasive track and tracing and testing.

That depends on whether or not they feel they really do need to do regular, massive-scale vaccination programmes for this though.

To take NZ as an example - if they've controlled this without needing to wait for a vaccine and without that much economic damage, why would they feel the need to sign up to something as expensive as a multi-year rolling programme of mass vaccinations just because other countries CBA to prevent spread?

 

[Tubey]

No Tubey, thats not what I want. Its not what I've ever said I want, IIRC. If you are going to talk about the reality of it then you could at least acknowledge the reality of what was said.

What I want is to have an effective test, trace and isolate system in place that can stamp on those outbreaks before they ever get out of control - that means we can keep our economy open, prevent school closures, prevent mental health damage etc etc. Not only will that still help with this pandemic, it will - as various countries found with SARS - help with the next one, too. This country not coming out of this crisis (as a whole, not this lockdown) with that in place is, frankly, mindless.

You've said variations of that theme consistently. The other week you were saying instances of flu shouldn't be tolerated.

Finally I'd have hoped this "well, we cope with the flu" nonsense would have been killed off by this past year, but it seems not. Flu kills more than ten thousand people a year in this country, and theres a good chance (based on other countries' performance) that at least half of them might be preventable.

You want a fundamental shift in attitude from everyone in society for something we've tolerated for generations as acceptable in return for a normal social life. What you're asking for isn't going to happen. People will long term wash their hands more and be more aware of vaccination scheduling, that's about it, as we live in a liberal society.

As soon as people can legally go gigs without a mask, they'll go gigs without a mask - will that kill ten more people than if everyone at gigs wore masks, from flu/COVID etc? Sure.

Is that a valid trade-off? Yes. Absolutely yes. We can't prevent every death from every thing, nor should we even try.

Sorry, but that’s just wrong.

If there are thousands / tens of thousands of easily preventable deaths, then we as a society should look to prevent them.

If there’s a way of preventing those deaths, that also protects us and keeps society open in a pandemic without going through what we’ve just gone through, then we should do it.

This means we - government, employers, business and citizens - are going to have to do and accept things that didn’t happen before. Things like staying off work (and being able to stay off) when people feel symptoms starting, reporting it to the authorities, getting tested, even wearing masks in crowded areas etc). The government are going to have to get better at identifying and stopping outbreaks.

Otherwise, if the takeaway is “everyone dies” then what’s the point of anything?

That's what Whitty is saying and indeed what they're doing by opening up slowly. You're against that, whilst saying you're for it at the same time.

 

[arminisgod]

Earliest 17th May mate.

yeah just saw that. Mexico beckons

 

[Deleted member 48881]

You've said variations of that theme consistently. The other week you were saying instances of flu shouldn't be tolerated.



You want a fundamental shift in attitude from everyone in society for something we've tolerated for generations as acceptable in return for a normal social life. What you're asking for isn't going to happen. People will long term wash their hands more and be more aware of vaccination scheduling, that's about it, as we live in a liberal society.

As soon as people can legally go gigs without a mask, they'll go gigs without a mask - will that kill ten more people than if everyone at gigs wore masks, from flu/COVID etc? Sure.

Is that a valid trade-off? Yes. Absolutely yes. We can't prevent every death from every thing, nor should we even try.



That's what Whitty is saying and indeed what they're doing by opening up slowly. You're against that, whilst saying you're for it at the same time.

Thank you.

 

[davek]

CLOSE THE REGIONAL BORDERS


Or, get vaccinated.

Im ok with either option.

I think there's a few of us on here who realise that the vaccines are very important. But their importance is not as a silver bullet to put this virus beyond us all. They are imprtant only if they are part and parcel of a more comprehensive game plan against the virus that means suppressing it whenever it manifests itself and cracking down hard - pushing people back indoors who need to be quarantining AND which keeps up our guard against infection spread by hammering home the social distancing message all the time and demanding mask wearing in all settings.

The vaccines on their own will be a short lived, pyrrhic victory.

 

[Tubey]

@tsubaki, to address Track & Trace - that can be done but it can't be done in an authoritarian way. You can't mass test without good reason, you can't force people to isolate and lose their income - not in the long term. What you can do is test people who arrive at GPs/hospitals with symptoms, genome sequence the variants that present and produce vaccines to meet those variants.

In short, it's what we do already with the flu. The exact same. It'll be better funded, more aware, but generally that's the behind the scenes approach that's needed. A constant, multi-billion pound, decades long program for something that will ultimately be "flu mk2" in 12-18 months is unnecessary.

What is necessary is a global effort to learn how we were poor with the response to this pandemic and put things in place to deal with the next one. Track & Trace systems ready to ramp up in reserve, like an army required for a war, would be a very good idea.

 

[Goat]

I think there's a few of us on here who realise that the vaccines are very important. But their importance is not as a silver bullet to put this virus beyond us all. They are imprtant only if they are part and parcel of a more comprehensive game plan against the virus that means suppressing it whenever it manifests itself and cracking down hard - pushing people back indoors who need to be quarantining AND which keeps up our guard against infection spread by hammering home the social distancing message all the time and demanding mask wearing in all settings.

Ive got some very bad news for those people.

Once the vaccines are wider spread, nobody will care and nor should they.

This Mecca where people cares for its fellow man and does everything it can to preserve life, its for the fairies Dave.

As Humans, we only know how to destroy.

 

[davek]

Ive got some very bad news for those people.

Once the vaccines are wider spread, nobody will care and nor should they.

This Mecca where people cares for its fellow man and does everything it can to preserve life, its for the fairies Dave.

As Humans, we only know how to destroy.

Of course they should. They all have family members who will perish under the wrong circumstances from this virus.

 

[toffee82]

That depends on whether or not they feel they really do need to do regular, massive-scale vaccination programmes for this though.

To take NZ as an example - if they've controlled this without needing to wait for a vaccine and without that much economic damage, why would they feel the need to sign up to something as expensive as a multi-year rolling programme of mass vaccinations just because other countries CBA to prevent spread?

If they want to open up their borders, then they will need a vaccine strategy.

At the very least they will have to insist on visitors showing proof of vaccination and also roll it out to their elderly and vulnerable.

 

[Deleted member 48881]

Of course they should. They all have family members who will perish under the wrong circumstances from this virus.

what if said family members are ok with the risk?

 

[SussexToffee]

foreign travel allowed from 21st June.

Thank [Poor language removed]

Will have to use my Icelandair voucher by then, or might save it for later just in case the Toffees get into Europe and end up playing a tie there!.

So cannot wait to get back to all these amazing things, it’s just so exciting. It’s also my friends at work, friends outside work, being able to go round my friend Amy’s flat again for movies and Toffees games on the TV, trips up to Liverpool when grounds reopen.

I really have been beating myself up for taking things for granted, only to realise how great it was to have them now they’ve been taken away. They are now on their way back and I won’t ever again get back to my ways, I’m going to live life to the full when everything reopens and Iceland let us back in, and I so cannot wait.

 

[marnie]

yeah just saw that. Mexico beckons

Back to work for me thank christ.

 

[Goat]

Of course they should. They all have family members who will perish under the wrong circumstances from this virus.

You didn't answer my genuine question earlier, what would Daves roadmap look like?

We have all read Boris The Butchers and considering hes a clueless mass-murdering buffoon, I find it hard to disagree with the direction.

 

[davek]

what if said family members are ok with the risk?

It's not their call to make, because others taking it upon themselves to flout every social distancing rule will destabilise the whole population.

 

[davek]

You didn't answer my genuine question earlier, what would Daves roadmap look like?

We have all read Boris The Butchers and considering hes a clueless mass-murdering buffoon, I find it hard to disagree with the direction.

I gave it to you already:

Lockdown until EVERYONE IS JABBED TWICE, a track and trace system is in place worthy of the claim 'world class', hospitality is shutdown as an indoor sector.

That would provide a basis for releasing from lockdown.