Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[peteblue]

no, he wouldn't pete

in fact noone would be criticising the government for giving medication in the way in which it was meant to be used

Yet you are continually criticising a strategy designed specifically to reduce deaths, with absolutely no Medical or Scientific people sharing your view.....name any body of U.K. medical people who are absolutely against this and why.....

 

[roydo]

no, he wouldn't pete

in fact noone would be criticising the government for giving medication in the way in which it was meant to be used

They have literally just now, well half hour ago, explained the process for second doses. Alongside more first doses for over 60s.

And when I say "they", it was the CMO and the NHS bloke in charge of the vax programme.

The success of this, so far, has hardly anything to do with the Government, funding and procurement aside. And if some on here knew who has been the reason procurement has been successful, their heads would fall off.

 

[Neiler]

The basic difference between the two islands is that those governing one of them looked to protect their people; the other took steps to preserve their economy (which is ironic given that the UK economy has taken one of the biggest hits during the Covid19 period); one government cared about people; the other couldn't give a flying one about them. It's reflected in fatality rates:

UK deaths from Covid19 - 1,749 per million

Ireland deaths from Covid19 - 798 per million

Yes, the NHS are doing a great roll out job. But that's a necessary cleaning up of a mess of calamitous proportions.

All true, but you to try to look at it from the UK eyes out. Everyone knew that the Uk economy would be hit by Brexit and it was heading into likely its most challenging period economically in its very recent history anyway. Then Covid hit. i wouldnt be a fan of brexit, Johnson or the government. But i can see very real dangers to the UKs welfare both economically because of Brexit and from a public health point of view with Covid. Its a tricky balancing act for the politicians of juggling public health and the economy - both things broadly impact on the wellbeing of Uk citizens. Do i think the UK has done either well, not really, but it has been a horrible perfect storm for the UK and the UK has considerations other countries dealing with this dont.

I do think the above explains some of the logic of the Uks decisions, the initial herd immunity, struggle with PPE, the eat out to help out stuff, the reluctance to go into lock down in the second wave, then did it to late, you cant protect one aspect without hurting the other and really didnt get either right and UK citizens have suffered holistically in terms of health, economically and subsequently from a whole holistic wellbeing point of view.

I don't agree with the UK current approach, it might be fine, but its a feeling your way in the dark strategy with no evidence really to back it up. It might be grand, but i dont think if the UK hadnt had such a bad time in terms of public health or their were not real fears economically, they would be making different decisions on this. They are desperate to get the vaccines out there and i dont blame them. Granted much of Europe is way behind, they dont seem to be making the same desperate decisions. I think they are making them because of a desperate position both on public health and economically and to be fair the county has had a really, really hard time during this in every way - so from that point of view if you can accept that is there position i can understand the logic of decisions, even if i dont agree with them. Perhaps everywhere else has the benefit of being patient and risk adverse - like not rolling out AZ for over 55s for example.

Lets hope it works out though, whatever happens in Ireland will affect the Uk and vice versa, we have seen this with both Brexit and the Uk variant, so we have to hope for both Islands the whole thing works out.

 

[Cool_Blue]

Either we trust our NHS, medical profession and scientists or we don’t. Do you seriously believe any of the former would deliberately put you at risk ?.......seriously....

C’mon Pete, you must realise that the usual suspects on here know far more about creating and distributing vaccines than “our NHS, medical profession and scientists”.

 

[tsubaki]

Yet you are continually criticising a strategy designed specifically to reduce deaths, with absolutely no Medical or Scientific people sharing your view.....name any body of U.K. medical people who are absolutely against this and why.....

well....

the bloke who runs the company that made it: https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...tist-behind-pfizer-biontech-jab-says-12215576

the BMA: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/23/doctors-call-shorter-gap-pfizer-covid-vaccine-doses-uk

numerous medics: https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/05/covid-19-vaccines-to-delay-or-not-to-delay-second-doses/

 

[Barnfred 55]

Meanwhile the U.K. new cases is dropping like a stone....

Down below 10,000 today for the first time since God knows when. It's been dropping by 25% weekly on average for the last 5 weeks. If it continues in this vein we'll be down to around 3/4000 by the time schools go back on 8 March. By the beginning of April, when hopefully we'll be able to open up other parts of the economy we'll be down to 1/2000, which is the sort of figures we were getting in the summer when we were doing a fraction of the daily testing we are now. Hopefully the death rate will be right down by that stage too.

By that time, I would imagine most of the over 60s and at risk would have had their first vaccine, so few of the infections will lead to hospitalisation and deaths. For me, the clouds are starting to lift but I don't expect Johnson to be too positive at the moment. He's rightly been called out for being too bullish in the past so I can understand his reticence now. But I wouldn't be surprised, if the figures continue falling as they have been, if we see some hospitality opened in time for Easter. The pre shut down covid restrictions will still be in place initially though, so not sure if you'll be able to open up your pub Pete.

 

[tsubaki]

They have literally just now, well half hour ago, explained the process for second doses. Alongside more first doses for over 60s.

And when I say "they", it was the CMO and the NHS bloke in charge of the vax programme.

The success of this, so far, has hardly anything to do with the Government, funding and procurement aside. And if some on here knew who has been the reason procurement has been successful, their heads would fall off.

Did they tell you whether or not the Pfizer vaccine would provide sufficient protection after twelve weeks from the first dose? No. That is because they do not know - they think it will work, but there hasn't been any published research saying that it will and there certainly wasn't any when they made the decision.

That is the point; we are doing something - using millions of elderly and clincally vulnerable British people - to at best try and find out if this works at controlling an outbreak or not. We are doing it when we could have been doing - and did plan - a vaccination campaign that would have been world leading, with ample scientific backing, which we know would (when combined with the lockdown) have controlled this virus.

 

[roydo]

but I don't expect Johnson to be too positive at the moment.

He wasnt. Cautiously confident we are on the right path, but not prepared to guarantee anything.

 

[sbbefc]

Down below 10,000 today for the first time since God knows when. It's been dropping by 25% weekly on average for the last 5 weeks. If it continues in this vein we'll be down to around 3/4000 by the time schools go back on 8 March. By the beginning of April, when hopefully we'll be able to open up other parts of the economy we'll be down to 1/2000, which is the sort of figures we were getting in the summer when we were doing a fraction of the daily testing we are now. Hopefully the death rate will be right down by that stage too.

By that time, I would imagine most of the over 60s and at risk would have had their first vaccine, so few of the infections will lead to hospitalisation and deaths. For me, the clouds are starting to lift but I don't expect Johnson to be too positive at the moment. He's rightly been called out for being too bullish in the past so I can understand his reticence now. But I wouldn't be surprised, if the figures continue falling as they have been, if we see some hospitality opened in time for Easter. The pre shut down covid restrictions will still be in place initially though, so not sure if you'll be able to open up your pub Pete.

Seems very positive. I think Israel have recorded a huge drop off too. All signs the vaccine is working but too many variables to get the full picture just yet.

We need to keep a lid on the worst variants now. Easier said than done, but here's hoping.

 

[BlueToff]

and there it is

literally what I’ve been saying for weeks

 

[Amw79]

Is it just me, or does Johnson’s line about the relaxing of restrictions being “cautious, but irreversible” seem entirely the wrong principle?

Being tied down to a particular course of action with no plan to change direction or reverse if the situation changes doesn’t strike me as a good strategy. I’d want us to be pragmatic and able to react quickly.

 

[roydo]

No. That is because they do not know - they think it will work,

But unlike you, based on decades and thousands of viruses that they have dealt with.

To you and me, its weird science. To them, they look at the 3000 ish proteins that make up any virus, attack the few that are dangerous, (infection/transmission/strength), and respond to any variants.

So no, they dont "Know", but they can make a pretty educated decision, unless this is the first ever virus ever that is sufficiently different to every one before. It isnt. The rapid vaccines prove that, cos "all" they had to do was solve a bit of it.

 

[tsubaki]

But unlike you, based on decades and thousands of viruses that they have dealt with.

To you and me, its weird science. To them, they look at the 3000 ish proteins that make up any virus, attack the few that are dangerous, (infection/transmission/strength), and respond to any variants.

So no, they dont "Know", but they can make a pretty educated decision, unless this is the first ever virus ever that is sufficiently different to every one before. It isnt. The rapid vaccines prove that, cos "all" they had to do was solve a bit of it.

That is a lot of knowledge that isn't anything to do with this decision, though.

All the experts - here and abroad - agree that the best time to give people the second dose of Pfizer is 21 days after the first dose. This decision is not about how the virus works, or how its best treated in a patient, its about wider social issues - so that they can give more people partial protection via the first dose (edit) and thereby start to control an outbreak.

For that, there is no evidence as to give them an idea whether it will work - certainly not for this particular vaccine and I am not even sure its ever been tried with any other vaccination programme on this scale (in the sense of knowingly giving weaker protection to individuals so that you can you can spread what doses you have to more individuals).

It is a guess; whether people think that is a guess worth making in these circumstances and given what the alternative was, is up to them. Personally I hope it works, but if it doesn't there should be extremely serious questions asked.

 

[toffee82]

and there it is

literally what I’ve been saying for weeks

To be fair, I watched the press conference and he didn't say it like that.

He was asked a question about vaccine passports and did his usual bumbling.

I can't see how you can do anything like that until everyone has had the opportunity to have a vaccine anyway.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Did they tell you whether or not the Pfizer vaccine would provide sufficient protection after twelve weeks from the first dose? No. That is because they do not know - they think it will work, but there hasn't been any published research saying that it will and there certainly wasn't any when they made the decision.

That is the point; we are doing something - using millions of elderly and clincally vulnerable British people - to at best try and find out if this works at controlling an outbreak or not. We are doing it when we could have been doing - and did plan - a vaccination campaign that would have been world leading, with ample scientific backing, which we know would (when combined with the lockdown) have controlled this virus.

Are we though?. I was speaking to my sister the other night. She's a senior manager at Liverpool Royal. She said that the Pfizer vaccine is only being used by the larger hospital trusts that have the labs that can accommodate the strict storage requirements. In Liverpool, the hospitals, since January when the AZ vaccine became available, have hardly been vaxing the general public. The vast majority have been NHS staff (not just front line but all staff) and they are now also offering it to staff family members. I'm sure people on here who work for the NHS (or have family that do) will be able to verify that. Most of the general public (i.e the old and vulnerable) are receiving the AZ vaccine. Those who did receive the Pfizer one in December have already had their 2nd jab.

I suspect if this were happening in Liverpool the likelihood is that it is happening elsewhere too. Certainly down in Cornwall people are going to specialised vaccine centres rather than Truro hospital.

My sister also happened to mention that she was shocked by the large number of NHS staff declining the vaccine, but that's another matter entirely.