Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Billy Dean]

Thieves in Cologne broke into a hospital warehouse and stole 50,000 face masks.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

For a total lockdown yes, but the state could do things to help and it would probably cost less than doing nothing or a bailout a la 2008-9 would. Tell business there will be no tax at all and their rent / mortgage will be covered for Q2 this year, and all citizens that their mortgage / rent will be likewise covered (as a holiday rather than a freebie for mortgages though, and they’d still pay tax). Then loan the money to the banks to let them cover the mortgages. Anyone who can’t work because of the crisis gets SSP, which should be enough to live on once housing and transportation costs are removed from their spending for 3 months.

It would probably cost between £50- £100 billion up front, but you’d get most of it back as the banks returned the cash and the only businesses that should go under would be really short term, hand-to-mouth outfits that would probably have been going under whatever happened. Everyone else should be able to get by, though there might need to be some cases where further help would be needed.

I'm inclined to think it would be many times higher than that, as you'd imagine a business with no income for six months (which is what Imperial believe is required - not 3) couldn't afford to pay staff any more than they could the rent. Add in that neither the company or their employees would be paying any tax (as neither would be earning) and government tax revenues would go through the floor, especially when sales taxes are also likely to be massively hit.

I mean take someone as relatively flush as Everton, and ask them to have no gate receipts for six months while still paying staff, and that would be a real job. They would need to go to the bank to survive, and with so many other businesses having to do likewise, there would probably need to be huge quantitative easing to give banks enough money to lend. No idea what will happen, but we're in unchartered waters, so I think it's important that we don't harangue officials for adapting on the fly here, as they essentially need to figure this out as they go.

 

[thirdmantackle]

Ey?

I'm sure the schools will get closed but at this stage there's no evidence at all to suggest what you're saying will happen.

Half of the population - at least - is going to get infected with this. There's nothing we can do to stop it. We can only slow it down. We can't slow it down as much as initially predicted (that 10-12 week peak) because we didn't do enough testing, basically.

I know it's grim but we have to accept that it's the case. 40m people will get this. The vast, vast majority will be fine, young or old or middle aged.

It's making sure we protect the vulnerable as much as possible but there's only so much that's going to be able to be done in that regard. The best hope we have is of spreading out the infection over a period of say, 5-6 weeks rather than 1-2 (as happened with the first outbreak in Italy and then Madrid) so that people who do need the additional care can be cared for.

Children will pass it on to each other then bring it home to parents and grandparents.
Many of whom might work in vital services- health, police, haulage, warehousing, food retail

Its very common sense.
Close the schools, stop people socially interacting

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Bruce

I like your posts and I respect your views.

However, step back a little and look at the big picture here. Hundreds of thousands of people are finding themselves without income from their normal employment through no fault of their own. Added to this many hundreds of thousands face premature death or permanent injury to their respiratory systems because of a virus that was not of their own making.

For those of us in Ireland, the collective memory of the Famine remains in our DNA. Regrettably, the capitalist utilitarian attitude of the London Government of the time was that little or no help should be given to the millions who were starving, while maintaining trade at all costs to maximise profits. This trade included cereals that were grown in Ireland being exported for profits.

I really cannot agree that world Governments should repeat this heartless approach, and allow people to enter poverty in order to keep Government finances in a healthy state. This is an unprecedented world catastrophe (well Spanish flu post WWI was similar - but I hope we have learne dfrom that).

There is enough finance in world Governments and financial institutions to cushion those who need it most, without destroying the world.

Allowing people to enter destitution through no fault of their own is not an acceptable policy.

I'm not advocating any particular approach, just saying that if the government follow the Imperial guidance and lockdown the country for six months, then that would, I suspect, require a level of state intervention in the wellbeing of all of us that is unprecedented. I have no idea how they would that, whether it's feasible for them to do that, or what the implications will be long-term.

And this isn't just a case of helping those who would traditionally be regarded as most vulnerable. There are nearly 6 million small businesses in the UK, and a lock down on the scale we see elsewhere, for the time the researchers believe is required to suppress the virus, wow. I don't know to be honest.

 

[tsubaki]

I'm inclined to think it would be many times higher than that, as you'd imagine a business with no income for six months (which is what Imperial believe is required - not 3) couldn't afford to pay staff any more than they could the rent. Add in that neither the company or their employees would be paying any tax (as neither would be earning) and government tax revenues would go through the floor, especially when sales taxes are also likely to be massively hit.

I mean take someone as relatively flush as Everton, and ask them to have no gate receipts for six months while still paying staff, and that would be a real job. They would need to go to the bank to survive, and with so many other businesses having to do likewise, there would probably need to be huge quantitative easing to give banks enough money to lend. No idea what will happen, but we're in unchartered waters, so I think it's important that we don't harangue officials for adapting on the fly here, as they essentially need to figure this out as they go.

It wouldn’t be that much more; the total tax take for last years Q2 was £155 billion, and you’d only be cancelling things like business rates, employers NICs and so on for everyone. Anyone still at work would still be paying tax, they’d just have their mortgage or rent paid. People without mortgages or rent wouldn’t get anything.

 

[Harryflashman]

No doubt I’ve lost money , not a fortune but a fair bit. It won’t be life changing but enough to be a shock .

I totally get people saying it’s not like people dying and I understand that but I know a Couple in Their 40’s who have sold their home to back themselves in a business within the hospitality industry , which has been successful and they’ve just looked to expand . Actually it’s been a roaring success and they’ve looked to expand build on that .I was with them yesterday they’re broken , they’re trying to look forward but it tough to see anyway out . Staff have just left a bigger chain to work for them, the knock on is huge . This is peoples lives .

I understand it might seem churlish to think about money when people are dying but this scene will be repeated thousands of times and what do you tell them ? Do they pour what they have left into it ? Can You lend them money even if you want to because it feels like setting fire to it ? honestly I’m emotional over this because it’s real to me . They should have had the derby , st Patrick’s day then football and looking forward to aintree instead this .

 

[Toffe3m4n]

My girlfriend is starting her 30 hour trip home from Cambodia in a few hours, just praying it goes smoothly for her.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Indeed. Lockdown advocates are basically asking the government to prop up vast numbers of organisations, and the people who are/used to be employed by them. That's a level of welfare that's unprecedented and I'm not sure just how feasible it is.

If isn't Bruce. Not even for the richer nations like ours.

How long before GOT starts asking for contributions to replace the loss in advertising. And will it get enough to continue?

Maybe you hold the view that GOT is irrelevant given the big picture but to some on here I guarantee it's a lifeline

 

[zzr45]

Its very common sense.
Close the schools, stop people socially interacting

Closure of all schools, 25% of universities remain open. Household contact rates for student families increase by 50% during closure. Contacts in the community increase by 25% during closure.

Common sense isn’t always right.

 

[coollino]

Doea anyone have a word for something that hasn't been done before?

 

[Sentinel]

Close the schools, stop people socially interacting

There's some deep civil liberty, rights issued involved in that. Firstly can it effectively be enforced. Secondly if the schools stop, how do people go to work. It's what may need to happen. But people need to get paid.

Telling someone to go home is easier than it sounds. Enforcing compulsive curfews is more complicated than that. I spoke to my Father to tonight, he's over 70, in uncertain terms he told me to go f myself. He's not staying home.

This is why personal responsibility and education are so important. There is literally only so much agencies and health professionals can do.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Doea anyone have a word for something that hasn't been done before?

New

 

[Jamiednm]

Doea anyone have a word for something that hasn't been done before?

DaveK

 

[Bluerover]

Doea anyone have a word for something that hasn't been done before?

Unprecedented, unique?

 

[Bluerover]

Thieves in Cologne broke into a hospital warehouse and stole 50,000 face masks.

No use to prevent contraction - only to help prevent an infected person from spreading.