Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Kenshin]

Lewis Goodall (@lewis_goodall) Tweeted: I‘m told that Merseyside council leaders have asked for the scientific advice behind the govt’s imminent decisions and they haven’t seen it. They also haven’t been shown the full list of planned closures, or details of threshold for different tiers of potential exit strategies.


“Following the science”

This is what I have always meant about subjective obedience. People choose what the government say is fine and isn't fine . Noone seems to ever question logic , does it actually make sense? It's always been a taboo, must be true because we have been told it.

Yet councils are pushing back on it now seemingly for the same reason, no scientific evidence to action.

It's almost like all of this , all these measures are based on the opposite of scientific approach. After all, the chief science officer for the government broke lockdown rules he himself advised to set.

Most of this lacks scientific evidence. Just repeating the same things, households dangerous, lockdowns necessary , anyone can die from it

It goes against the data , that's the reality.

Good read for all the 'jyst protect the elderly' and let everyone go on as normal' brigade

Navigating COVID-19 through the volume of competing voices

acmedsci.ac.uk

Particularly scathing of the Great Barrington declaration.

"On herd immunity, the current estimate of people who have been infected by the virus in the UK is around 8%. To get to herd immunity we would need around 70% of the population to have been infected with the virus. Not only are we a huge way off this but we now know that immunity to COVID-19 decreases over time, and that people can be re-infected with the virus".

As they didn't test everyone back in April and haven't tested everyone now , it's unreliable data to guess the numbers.

Never going to convince me otherwise

 

[Charro]

What is it you want to see happen now?

I want the government to provide the data the councillors have been asking for to explain the reasoning behind closing certain things but keeping other things open.

I want clear and effective communication from the people applying the rules they want people to adhere to. Without that, they won’t receive compliance.

 

[The binman chronicles]

If that's the case why are kids in schools still doing physical education?

The kids all mix anyhow in their bubbles, the PE sessions are hardly going to make a difference.

But then if masks are so important to curbing cases , I've always asked why aren't they compulsory everywhere outside the house where they would be most effective. On spot fines for not wearing a mask and you get everyone wearing them then.

That's getting a bit into a totalitarian state. If you walk outside your house and there is no one around should you need to wear a mask? People who live in high rises should be able to walk outside without a mask if they are not coming into contact with anyone else don't you think. Common sense has to take over here if your front door is out into a busy high street then maybe you should. But you then can take it off once you in an area that allows you to be free from anyone else.

It goes beyond that.

It's not about hospital beds man. Chances are if you are in a bed that isn't a surgical one then you are far beyond simple treatment at that point.

All services are backed up to the point that they will take over a year to recover. In my services alone any given one could have hundreds of patients on waiting lists , especially given that they started before the lockdown.

Quality of life will decrease because getting that surgery or treatment from a hospital just isn't going to be viable without waiting months. Given that the original target date is get patients on their treatment pathway within 18 weeks, much lower for most services, having to wait months is a completely different story now.

If you can picture having a physical issue that makes you struggle with day to day basic things , these are the people having to wait months potentially. I know because I speak to them on a daily basis.

There will be so many people crippled by lack of treatment access over the next year. And what makes it worse is that ok talking about Liverpool, this will be the same for every city around the country.

I don't get what you are trying to say here. If we don't have further lockdowns then the situation only gets worse.

 

[davek]

I want the government to provide the data the councillors have been asking for to explain the reasoning behind closing certain things but keeping other things open.

I want clear and effective communication from the people applying the rules they want people to adhere to. Without that, they won’t receive compliance.

Never mind sectors, we are seeing a huge increase in infections and a steady growth in deaths. And it will get worse. What I'm asking you is what would you do about that?

 

[Charro]

Never mind sectors, we are seeing a huge increase in infections and a steady growth in deaths. And it will get worse. What I'm asking you is what would you do about that?

Never mind sectors

Never mind local business

Never mind people’s jobs.

I don’t know what I’d do, I’m not an expert by any stretch so wouldn’t really be able to provide a decent answer

I know what I want my government to do though and that’s to effectively communicate with local councillors to explain why they’re putting in certain restrictions. I also want them to provide support for any business that have to shut for a long period of time.

Whilst schools and universities are still open I don’t see how we’re going to have a massive reduction in cases, yet they’re still expecting places to close for business.

If people can’t see a direct correlation between them closing and the possibility of cases dropping then it isn’t going to work.

 

[Kenshin]

The kids all mix anyhow in their bubbles, the PE sessions are hardly going to make a difference.



That's getting a bit into a totalitarian state don't you think? If you walk outside your house and there is no one around should you need to wear a mask? People who live in high rises and can only get real air should be able to walk outside. Common sense has to take over here if your front door is out into a busy high street then maybe you should. But you then can take it off once you in an area that allows you to be free from anyone else.



I don't get what you are trying to say here. If we don't have further lockdowns then the situation only gets worse.

First point.

If a mask contributes to lower transmission rates and that is scientifically fact (even though last I read WHO don't say so) then why not wear them everywhere? Go into town and there is loads of people walking up and down church Street, many without masks. So why not make it compulsory? It's in the name of controlling a pandemic after all? You can catch the virus anywhere from anyone

Second point.

Our hospital services are only just opening up for any kind of service on a regular basis. Since July there has been a very minimalist approach to appointments and many are telephone rather than with a medical professional.

So right now , unless it's life or death, chances are you aren't getting treatment for a long time. That's not because of hospital beds being filled with covid patients, that's because many of the services are shut down for far too long.

You are right in what you insinuate , control the virus and things improve but whilst lockdown measures keep getting forced on the country , no hospital can open up its services to the extent that they need to. So patients who can't even walk , wipe their arse , sleep without being in pain , these won't get anywhere near treatment for a long time.

Times that by however many services there are with people with similar stories for different medical reasons, then times that again for every single city in the country.

That's one of the hidden effects of shutting everywhere down over and over , hospital treatment can't function because they simply can't bring enough people into the hospital.

 

[davek]

Never mind sectors

Never mind local business

Never mind people’s jobs.

I don’t know what I’d do, I’m not an expert by any stretch so wouldn’t really be able to provide a decent answer

I know what I want my government to do though and that’s to effectively communicate with local councillors to explain why they’re putting in certain restrictions. I also want them to provide support for any business that have to shut for a long period of time.

Whilst schools and universities are still open I don’t see how we’re going to have a massive reduction in cases, yet they’re still expecting places to close for business.

If people can’t see a direct correlation between them closing and the possibility of cases dropping then it isn’t going to work.

So, close the schools and leave businesses open? That's what I concluded from the above.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I would like them to try a series of short lockdowns. 2 weeks then back again. The problem is the hospitalisations will still be rising by the time the lockdown ends but you have to trust there should be a dip after that and hopefully a resetting of the number of people walking around with the virus.

I think people would tolerate it and try harder to follow the rules during that time.

 

[BlueToff]

The issue doesn't really seem to be people not following the rules in the grand scheme of things.

It's more that the rules don't make sense and don't seem to be working.

 

[Charro]

So, close the schools and leave businesses open? That's what I concluded from the above.

You can come to that conclusion if you please.

I want them to provide more clarity in their reasoning and support for businesses that could face six months without custom.

 

[anxiouswarrior]

Sorry to hear that it maybe only Merseyside on tier 3 restrictions , i know their is a lot of footie banter but us Mancunians hold the hand of friendship to you scousers we have a lot more in common than divides us , we share i think a hatred of the tory filth that has caused our two great cities terrible harm over the last 35 years or so

 

[davek]

The issue doesn't really seem to be people not following the rules in the grand scheme of things.

It's more that the rules don't make sense and don't seem to be working.

The 'restrictions' imposed a month or so back weren't restrictions. That's why we're here today looking at real restrictions...and even now this bunch of murderers in the Cabinet are failing to stand firm and wanting to horse trade over what gets shut and what stays open because they are getting flak from their scum MPs who are lobbying for the businesses who bung them money to bark for them.

 

[The binman chronicles]

First point.

If a mask contributes to lower transmission rates and that is scientifically fact (even though last I read WHO don't say so) then why not wear them everywhere? Go into town and there is loads of people walking up and down church Street, many without masks. So why not make it compulsory? It's in the name of controlling a pandemic after all? You can catch the virus anywhere from anyone

Second point.

Our hospital services are only just opening up for any kind of service on a regular basis. Since July there has been a very minimalist approach to appointments and many are telephone rather than with a medical professional.

So right now , unless it's life or death, chances are you aren't getting treatment for a long time. That's not because of hospital beds being filled with covid patients, that's because many of the services are shut down for far too long.

You are right in what you insinuate , control the virus and things improve but whilst lockdown measures keep getting forced on the country , no hospital can open up its services to the extent that they need to. So patients who can't even walk , wipe their arse , sleep without being in pain , these won't get anywhere near treatment for a long time.

Times that by however many services there are with people with similar stories for different medical reasons, then times that again for every single city in the country.

That's one of the hidden effects of shutting everywhere down over and over , hospital treatment can't function because they simply can't bring enough people into the hospital.

1) if we say wear them in high streets and other densely packed public areas, then I agree with you. Whether the public would do that is another thing though and it is impossible to police all of the people all of the time. People have to want to do this, the Koreans and Japanese won't think twice. We have a big fight over our liberties being desecrated.

2) it's buggered either way so there isn’t much we can do until it gets better either by its own or the vaccine comes. If we lock down early enough to get as few people in during the back end of Winter, get them back out by early spring then during the warmer months try and claw back what has been missed. We can't lockdown late that then eats into summer like this year.

 

[davek]

Sorry to hear that it maybe only Merseyside on tier 3 restrictions , i know their is a lot of footie banter but us Mancunians hold the hand of friendship to you scousers we have a lot more in common than divides us , we share i think a hatred of the tory filth that has caused our two great cities terrible harm over the last 35 years or so

I'd wait until you see what the 'restrictions' are before commiserating. They'll have as much holes in them as Swiss cheese.

 

[anxiouswarrior]

I'd wait until you see what the 'restrictions' are before commiserating. They'll have as much holes in them as Swiss cheese.

Comrade this is not the issue can you not see more and more this an attack on working class people , we should stand together against this rubbish from Bullingdon and his crew , more people die younger from everything because of these tory coonts