Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

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LouReedwalkonthewildside said:
Durham police facing possible inquiry into handling of Cummings case

Durham police is facing a possible inquiry into its handling of the Dominic Cummings saga after complaints were passed to its internal investigation team. The force has received a number of complaints from members of the public angry at the way it dealt with Boris Johnson’s aide over his travels during lockdown.

It is understood the messages have been passed to the force’s professional standards department which is assessing whether to take matters further.

Following an investigation this week, Durham police said it believed the special adviser probably did break lockdown rules by embarking on a 52-mile round trip to the town of Barnard Castle with his wife and son on her birthday.

Officers might have intervened to send him home had they caught him on the trip on 12 April, or fined him if he refused, the report said.

Its investigation also concluded that Cummings did not break health protection regulations by making the 260-mile trip to Durham with his son and wife, who had coronavirus symptoms, though it made no finding in relation to the “stay at home” government guidance.

The force’s findings have been met with anger in some quarters, prompting several emailed complaints which were then passed on to its professional standards department as is protocol. The complaints were first revealed by the Telegraph on Friday.

The nature of the complaints is not known. The force’s findings published on Thursday prompted anger both from people who believe Cummings did break the law and those who believe the force should never have retrospectively investigated the matter.About time they were investigated for their handling of the Cummings affair. They changed their story from 'speaking to an individual about isolating' to just before Cummings appearance to 'security issues'. Why did they changed their story? If it was security issues, when did they stop their protection of him? Was it after he left his parents farm or after he crossed the border to another county or was it when he get to his London home?


A Durham constabulary spokesman said: “There is currently no investigation into the force’s handling of this inquiry.”

The professional standards department could decide to take matters further if it believes there is enough evidence to warrant a misconduct investigation. Such investigations have the authority to seize documents, interview witnesses and even arrest serving police officers.

A spokeswoman for the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) said no referral had been made to it from Durham police and therefore it was not conducting any investigation.
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About time they were investigated for their handling of the Cummings affair. They changed their story from 'speaking to an individual about isolating' to just before Cummings appearance to 'security issues'. Why did they changed their story? If it was security issues, when did they stop their protection of him? Was it after he left his parents farm or after he crossed the border to another county or was it when he get to his London home?
 
tsubaki said:
the Scots and Welsh aren't coming into England though

though if we are being entirely historically accurate, if anyone should be sent home then it is the English
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Don't encourage the cultural personal disorder of the English they get all patriotic about ST George (failed Turkish Christian high born soldier of Rome)
 
zzr45 said:
I see that side of it. The huge problem we have is that there seems to be no indication of exactly where these infections are clustered, so we get told that there’s x amount of new infections each day but little on where they are actually occurring. There was a suggestion (can’t remember where sorry) that outside of hospitals and care homes the virus is actually close to an R number of zero.
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If you are interested in geographical data, this is a link to the official web-site. Numbers are broken down by Region (e.g. North West ), Upper Tier Local Authority (UTLA, e.g. Liverpool) and Lower Tier Local Authority (LTLA e.g. Knowsley). The data is updated several times a day.

UKHSA data dashboard

Showing public health data across England
coronavirus.data.gov.uk coronavirus.data.gov.uk
 
davek said:
There is no way that the people of this country will observe social distancing in a few weeks time, never mind wear face covering. By and large, they just dont have that discipline. If the government made it mandatory to wear face coverings and attached a spot fine for not wearing one in public then, yeah, maybe there'd be compliance by most...because that's the way people are here: they think with their wallets. Thatcher's Children.

This is not like any normal European nation. The level of community mindedness is very low. There's been a conscious decision by government to play on age differences and who succumbs to this virus. They have almost completely washed their hands of anyone over a certain age and are focussing on relaunching the economy with the aid of the young and strong while failing to protect the old and weak. There is a Darwinian experiment taking place on this side of the Irish Sea. I envy you being on that side of it.
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Its a while since i lived in the UK, but im surprised to hear that, i always used to look at some of the social eticiuts in the UK that wouldn't be observed in Ireland - like cuing - for bus's stops in shops, driving obeying the rules of the road, used to drive me crackers and a lot of money sticking to the speed limit. In Ireland things like that are more chaotic - nod is as good as a wink culture and chance your arm.

Think you also have to look at meso and macro systems as well, politically and as a society in terms of beliefs ideology and identifying with the nation. Im not sure Britain has ever been so polarised, disenfranchised and lacking a national identity. Ironically, the very fervent right ring ideology of nationalism Brexit stocke'd has led to national division, non identification with the nation, non compliance and the cult of me. Politically, you dont get the sense the government belive in anything, not even Brext, its just the hobby horse for opportunity to get into power. That opportunism doesn't lend itself to great skills during a crisis politically and that has been evidenced - the cummings things is a case in point. One of the damning legacies of brexit was wiping out a couple of generations of decent UK politicians, by loosing referendums or polorised politics etc, whatever your persuasion - and here the UK is. A soup of indecision and lack of unity, alone as a nation without collegiate support of established systems, with a disenfranchised nation and have really struggled to manage the first phase of this. Im not surprised opening up is being used as a distraction of a euphoria for the masses, you'd want to move on quick and minimise political fallout wouldn't you. Just an outside view.
 
Neiler said:
Its a while since i lived in the UK, but im surprised to hear that, i always used to look at some of the social eticiuts in the UK that wouldn't be observed in Ireland - like cuing - for bus's stops in shops, driving obeying the rules of the road, used to drive me crackers and a lot of money sticking to the speed limit. In Ireland things like that are more chaotic - nod is as good as a wink culture and chance your arm.

Think you also have to look at meso and macro systems as well, politically and as a society in terms of beliefs ideology and identifying with the nation. Im not sure Britain has ever been so polarised, disenfranchised and lacking a national identity. Ironically, the very fervent right ring ideology of nationalism Brexit stocke'd has led to national division, non identification with the nation, non compliance and the cult of me. Politically, you dont get the sense the government belive in anything, not even Brext, its just the hobby horse for opportunity to get into power. That opportunism doesn't lend itself to great skills during a crisis politically and that has been evidenced - the cummings things is a case in point. One of the damning legacies of brexit was wiping out a couple of generations of decent UK politicians, by loosing referendums or polorised politics etc, whatever your persuasion - and here the UK is. A soup of indecision and lack of unity, alone as a nation without collegiate support of established systems, with a disenfranchised nation and have really struggled to manage the first phase of this. Im not surprised opening up is being used as a distraction of a euphoria for the masses, you'd want to move on quick and minimise political fallout wouldn't you. Just an outside view.
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That's all true and bang on the money. Brexit has torn down the old order, as it was supposed to do. But Brexit didn't arrive in a vacuum; that was the result of 40 years of the disintegration of a caring welfarist approach to society, each decade that went by saw more attacks on it until we ended up with an empty carcass that was easily smashed to bits by the right wing Tories currently in charge.

I wish it weren't so, and that I could state that in the next few months there will be discipline in the UK and a lead given on it by the governing class. But I know that's not what will happen. This lot want chaos, they welcome it. They want to destroy the state and hive everything off to the private sector and they want society destroyed to a point where a type of rampant individualism takes hold that surpasses even that we associate with the US.

We're screwed in this country. Just look at the nations who have failed in this crisis: the US, Brazil, the UK...and even in Sweden where the state took the decision to allow a laissez faire approach. If thiat failure has their populations wondering if they have their societies set up right, we have a political leadership that are answering those querstions already with a resounding affirmation of their own method for dealing with crises: just let it rip and see where it takes you. It's the reason we were late into "lockdown" (such as it was), and it's the reason we're abandoning lockdown way before any medical reason for doing so makes it sensible.

People have a go at me for using 'murderers' as an epithet for them. But I genuinely believe that's what they are...because all the evidence points that way.
 
PhilM said:
@Barnfred 55 the media have to hole some responsibility, but ultimately it's not beyond the realms of sensibility to expect the government to act for all our benefit.

For example, they set an arbitrary date for schools to reopen and it appears that they've stuck to that data regardless of what the scientific data suggests.

I'd rather they save lives than save face.
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I agree 100% with the highlighted bit Phil. But at the end of the day these are politicians that are running our country and they think differently to you and I.

From the moment Starmer became Labour leader he started calling for an exit strategy and immediately the press got on the case and it was building daily with every news outlet demanding it and every Labour MP mentioning it whenever interviewed. Scotland and wales gave into the pressure and came up with wishy washy plans that didn't tell you anything. The UK govt didn't but that was probably because Johnson was ill at the time. When they did come out with a plan it was more detailed as they were able to include projected dates when certain things would happen. You can't have any exit strategy that didn't include schools going back.

Yes June 1st was an arbitrary date, but when it was announced it came with provisions. It was a target, the final decisions were left up to the schools, and even the parents were told that they would not have action taken against them if they did not want their children to return. It was hardly a case that anybody was being forced. The science as regards children being ill from the disease was in favour. The science as regards children passing on the disease was inconclusive, but generally the risk was considered lower. Work was needed to be done to make the schools safer and discussions on how this could be done needed to take place, but there was over 3 weeks to do this. the relationship between schools and the government was a good one at his stage. The schools had stayed open throughout the crisis and done a fantastic job looking after the children of key workers with something like over 70% of the teachers working a roster system.

What happened next, whether orchestrated or not, turned into a media and social media bloodbath that created a massive divide between schools and government, that was never there before. I have to say that many labour councils didn't help matters by simply refusing to open schools more than 2 weeks before the deadline, without even waiting to find out how the science went or whether agreement could be met on safety concerns. Whether that was politically motivated I don't really care tbh. All I know is that it didn't help matters and has partly caused a situation where maybe half of our primary schools are returning on Monday and the rest aren't. A bit of a ludicrous situation I think you'll agree, that could, as you said, be easily remedied by the Govt simply dong a U turn on their announcement 3 weeks ago.

My argument is, they are continually being pushed into a corner by a media and social media that are scrutinising and judging every single decision that they are making it an us versus them situation rather than us all being in it together. When politicians have their backs to the wall they invariably make political decisions, which tend to turn out to be bad ones. You can see it happening now. They are rushing through the ITT system far too quickly before it has been properly set up and tested, and the people properly trained. They are opening up the lockdown when the daily new infection rates are still far too high.

If they had just been allowed to have simple scientifically led targets, I honestly believe none of this would be happening now. They would be putting back the target dates for this and that by a couple of weeks to allow the new infection rate to drop further and the TTI system to be properly developed, and yes schools returning would have been put back too.

You're right in what you say Phil. At the end of the day the politicians are the ones making the decisions and will ultimately be judged by them. But over scrutiny by media and social media is forcing them into corners which is causing them to make those decisions. They are politicians and would rather save face, but you could probably say that about most people sadly.
 
ramacca said:
About time they were investigated for their handling of the Cummings affair. They changed their story from 'speaking to an individual about isolating' to just before Cummings appearance to 'security issues'. Why did they changed their story? If it was security issues, when did they stop their protection of him? Was it after he left his parents farm or after he crossed the border to another county or was it when he get to his London home?
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And there aren't any security issues regarding driving 60 miles with your white stick and labrador with a kid in the back seat?
 
Barely a soul out around by me, popped to the post office and Home Bargains and there were hardly any queues outside the nearby Farmfoods and Iceland. Walked straight into the PO without having to queue as it was empty and was barely waiting 2-3 mins to get into HB with the store itself keeping to distancing

It can be done if people just use their heads, I’ve seen a lot of worries that it’ll go to pot when shops reopen in 2 weeks but I think shops with larger square space will manage things better than smaller units
 
JEBUS_LIVES said:
I'll read through them if you like. I'll have to anyway for work.
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Thanks for the offer mate. But I always think it's better to see things through your own eyes rather than others. Plus there are so many questions in my head I would like answers to, it would be unfair to burden that on others.

After the Cummings affair it's hard to think of this government in anything other than a bad light, but the cynic in me says if there was much in there to discredit them further them they wouldn't be allowing them to be published.

A lot of us have been crying out for the science to be published. I'm just a bit surprised that there are only the two of us on here actually talking about it. I'm sure the press will get their mits on the "headlines" pretty soon though.
 
davek said:
That's all true and bang on the money. Brexit has torn down the old order, as it was supposed to do. But Brexit didn't arrive in a vacuum; that was the result of 40 years of the disintegration of a caring welfarist approach to society, each decade that went by saw more attacks on it until we ended up with an empty carcass that was easily smashed to bits by the right wing Tories currently in charge.

I wish it weren't so, and that I could state that in the next few months there will be discipline in the UK and a lead given on it by the governing class. But I know that's not what will happen. This lot want chaos, they welcome it. They want to destroy the state and hive everything off to the private sector and they want society destroyed to a point where a type of rampant individualism takes hold that surpasses even that we associate with the US.

We're screwed in this country. Just look at the nations who have failed in this crisis: the US, Brazil, the UK...and even in Sweden where the state took the decision to allow a laissez faire approach. If thiat failure has their populations wondering if they have their societies set up right, we have a political leadership that are answering those querstions already with a resounding affirmation of their own method for dealing with crises: just let it rip and see where it takes you. It's the reason we were late into "lockdown" (such as it was), and it's the reason we're abandoning lockdown way before any medical reason for doing so makes it sensible.

People have a go at me for using 'murderers' as an epithet for them. But I genuinely believe that's what they are...because all the evidence points that way.
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Moron.
 
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