Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[DanEFC92]

You know you have a choice over the media you consume, right? It's like ditching having people you get on with as friends and deliberately seeking out people that annoy you, just so you can constantly point out how much they annoy you. If you don't like the Mail/Telegraph/rag (and lets face it, who would?), then why read them? Why share tweets and comments from them?

Aye. But not ditching other news sources or 'friends' just peering behind the curtain. These people have influence and deserve critique. Who would? Swathes of voters.

Strange comment from yourself imo.

 

[Barnfred 55]

The government has been woeful throughout this, not only that but their cruelty over the last 10 years has massively contributed to their woeful performance. That being said, the nightingale hossies being empty now doesnt make then a bad idea in tge first place imo, I've no beef with dough being spent on contingencies, i wish they had more far proactive in that regard

You negged me over this exact thing I recall. I do regret making that post as I'm not normally like that. But I did know it was a matter of time before somebody picked up on this and start having a pop. Well done for pulling him up over it by the way.

 

[arminisgod]

deaths down again today, the trend continues

 

[Barnfred 55]

Heaven forbid, what happens if they are needed ?

Better to have a safety net, than non at all.

I think they may well see some use in phase 2 mate. After we unlock the lock down. It's bound to rear it's head again.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Might be of interest to @NilSatisOptimum

Mental Health Providers Face Challenges Adapting to Pandemic

www.rutgers.edu

 

[LinekersLegs]

The one thing that stands out in that report LL is the low death rate, just 11% for even the people given placebos. Given that the severity of the disease in these patients were that they were hospitalised for umpteen days I'd have thought the death rate would have been much higher. Certainly that's the impression I've taken from people who have had lengthy spells in U.K. Hospitals. It doesn't help that we don't publish any accurate recovery figures.

How do these tests operate in practice? Do patients sign up for them. TBH I'm not sure how I'd feel about it if having agreed to take part I was then given a placebo rather than a potentially life saving drug.

Yeah you have to agree to take part in a clinical trial and sign a consent form that you understand risks/benefits and you are still free to withdraw at any time if you/your doctor has concerns as the treatment progresses.

ClinicalTrials.gov

clinicaltrials.gov

The thing is with a drug trial it is still at that “potentially“ part - it isn’t uncommon for them a) not to pan out b) have significant side effects. All those risks can be seen in the recent hydroxychlorooquine trials

Hydroxychloroquine and Cost: Generic vs. Brand Name

Learn about cost and hydroxychloroquine, financial and insurance assistance, ways to lower long-term costs, and more.

www.healthline.com

Even if you are given the placebo you will be given the best current standard of care and I’d assume get even more tests/checks on your health/welfare so, along with the selfless bit of contributing to overall medical knowledge that may help others, there is probably an individual benefit to being part of a trial.

 

[spectateur]

deaths down again today, the trend continues

Deaths not the key issue is it? Main thing is how many, and the trend in new infections.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Great post mate and as you say you can only post from your own experience. I wouldn't disagree that you are likely to see a vairent of service provision and different businesses models either private or public.The process of entering long term care can be a multifaceted one, based on the financial process, care need, availability, emotional transition and availability - all contribute often to the world wind you describe that really only scratches the service. Your experience will be guided about how any one of those those facets personally incapacitated and it can be subjective.

I do live and practice in Ireland but i attended University, trained and lived in the UK and worked under the NHS and local health care provision in different areas in different parts of the Uk, so would be very familiar with the NHS model, ive worked abroad to - in the States, Australia and NZ. So i take an active interest as being familiar with local health care services and have many friends and colleagues still in these places.

Im currently practicing in a specific specialist area of medicine now, but attached to the acute Unit i work in, is 120 bed residential care unit for the long term care of older people. The average prognosis in that setting would be higher then 12-18 months on average and their is a huge richness to be achieved in that time frame in my opinion if you can work with people within the limits of their comorbidity's - that is not to say people dont have EOL needs and care there, but it would be nothing like the stats you mention, in my experience currently or historically in the Uk - maybe its changed it has been a number of years. Im not correcting you, perhaps there is a piece of research that needs to be done in regard to economics and health care outcomes in residential care for older people and measured against equity of service provision - if that is the case that is horrid, but perhaps that is the variable as opposed t the universality of all out comes.

Its an exciting time and liberating time for older people, their is growing awareness of the rights of older a people, abuse and legislation around preserving the rights of older people even in limited capacity. Perhaps your experience was a number of years ago on the DNR, it does sound like iffy practice that i would be concerned about, as would threatening around acute intervention if you did not comply and sign - very worrying. Hopefully things have moved on from then. When i was training in the UK - they were significantly ahead of the game in the care of older people, medicine and rights. Its sad to hear that maybe they haven't progressed beyond that appex in your experience - it was very inspirational at the time.

Sounds like you and your wife have had and have lots going on, the very best to your wife sounds like a tough station for you both at the moment and really hope you both come through as best you can, both from a personal health point of view and learning how to live with grief. Hope you both stay safe and well mate.

Where you familiar with the old Liverpool Pathway scheme?

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Are you disappointed that they weren’t used then....

Yes very much so... Many people in care homes were refused admittance to hospital...

GPs advised to warn about 'difficult decisions' around hospital admissions

Hundreds of practices in North West London have been advised to tell the relatives of care home patients who lack capacity that 'difficult decisions' will need to be made around admitting these patients to hospital.

www.pulsetoday.co.uk

 

[Barnfred 55]

Yeah you have to agree to take part in a clinical trial and sign a consent form that you understand risks/benefits and you are still free to withdraw at any time if you/your doctor has concerns as the treatment progresses.

ClinicalTrials.gov

clinicaltrials.gov

The thing is with a drug trial it is still at that “potentially“ part - it isn’t uncommon for them a) not to pan out b) have significant side effects. All those risks can be seen in the recent hydroxychlorooquine trials

Hydroxychloroquine and Cost: Generic vs. Brand Name

Learn about cost and hydroxychloroquine, financial and insurance assistance, ways to lower long-term costs, and more.

www.healthline.com

Even if you are given the placebo you will be given the best current standard of care and I’d assume get even more tests/checks on your health/welfare so, along with the selfless bit of contributing to overall medical knowledge that may help others, there is probably an individual benefit to being part of a trial.

Are they aware that they have only been given a placebo?. Or aware that there is a 50% chance they are given a placebo.? Apologies if that information is contained within one of the links you posted.

Also what do you think about my comments about the death rates. Although we don't have any figures on recoveries here in the UK, the impression given is that death rate for those who spend lengthy times in hospital is a lot more than 10%. Well that's my take anyway.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Wow, truly impressive work by South Korea

 

[Barnfred 55]

Not many seem to read beyond the title. The media know this.

Which is why I always read beyond the title.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Scary reading that LCC are potentially facing bankrupty due to the current lack of funding.

Economy is going to completely go in the toilet after this - we simply need to start opening up at the end of next week imo.

Get plans in place now or start printing more money Boris.

 

[Neiler]

Where you familiar with the old Liverpool Pathway scheme?

It was really coming into vogue just as i left the UK and funnily the concept followed me around as i traveled the world, it was oft vaunted internationally as the modern contemporary best practice model at the time, until it was discredited. I was lucky enough to work with some of the clinicians laterally who were involved with coming up with the initial concept, like a lot of things in health care what starts out as a clinical concept of positivity can often be manipulated to dictate or justify "clinical decisions" or as means of "balancing the books" or "best use of resources" and things get a bit warped. A health care concept or model is only ever as good as the skills and values of professionals/teams implementing it in my experience.

 

[tsubaki]

That headline is misleading when you read the text of the article. It says "inquests told not to look at PPE shortages".

In reality it says.

"if there were reason to believe that some human failure contributed to the person being infected with the virus, an inquest may be required. The coroner may need to consider whether any failure of precautions in a particular workplace caused the deceased to contract the virus and so contributed to death"

In other words, you can have an inquest if you believe lack of PPE directly contributed to somebody's death.

What you can't do, according to the chief coroner, is use the context of the inquest to investigate "why" there was a PPE shortage, in other words to attach blame, or use the context of the inquest to criticise central government policy and systems.

When I first read that headline I thought that shortage of PPE was not a reason to hold an inquest into a NHS/care workers death. At least we know now that those that died due to a lack of PPE will be identified.

I have absolutely no idea whether this type of thing is usually included within Inquests, so not sure whether the instructions from the Chief Coroner are irregular or not. But the subject of why the PPE was so understocked still needs fully investigating and should be subject to some other form of enquiry once this is all over.

It is irregular, at least based on some inquests into the deaths of soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan where supply issues / maintenance problems / deliberate choices to deploy people without kit were all cited as causes.

I can understand why the Chief Coroner doesn't want dozens of his colleagues all investigating the same issue, but coroners have to be able to make a finding of death caused by a lack of PPE and be able to say that the problem was a national one (if it is in that case).

There also has to be a clear acceptance that if the coroner isn't going to look into why there were problems then someone - and it can only be a full public inquiry - is going to.