Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Jebus_lives]

There's a whole list of things you can criticise this government for in the handling of this virus. Some of it with the benefit of hindsight and some of it bloody obvious.

But in my opinion the one thing you can't throw at them is playing the blame game. I haven't seen every interview or published article but I don't recall seeing them blame any of the above other than difficult circumstances. Not hiding behind poor expert advice, an ineffectual civic service and a poorly organised NHS structure is one of the few things I actually give this government credit for.

If you want to look for a government that is doing all of those things you mention look no further than USA.

No

"Simply following the science"

You've

Michael Gove blames China for failing to stop spread of coronavirus

Ministers accused of ‘feeble excuses’ for their own mistakes – and even of putting Chinese people in the UK at risk

www.independent.co.uk

Got

Inside No 10 everyone is at war over coronavirus

Construction work at the Nightingale Hospital, the jewel in the crown of the government’s faltering response to the coronavirus pandemic, was nearly brought to a juddering halt on Thursday morning. It was a Whitehall farce that lays bare the chaos and confusion that has gripped the government. The C

www.thetimes.co.uk

A

With Johnson under fire, blame game begins over virus crisis

Media criticism intensifies after disclosure that only 2,000 NHS staff have been tested

www.ft.com

Point

Government blames misleading coronavirus test figures on Public Health England

Number 10 was forced to explain after Michael Gove announced 10,000 tests had been carried out but the true figure was nearer to 9,000. It came amid concerns that not enough frontline NHS staff were being tested.

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Jebus_lives]

They were added capacity, just in case, so far they haven’t been needed. This is good news btw......

I know.

 

[Neiler]

Sorry mate. I should have given your previous post a more detailed response than I did. In my defence I was using my mobile at the time, which always takes an age as I have big thumbs, plus I was also trying to watch Uhtred of Bebbingburgh..

But as I briefly mentioned in my original post, the standard and quality of nursing and care homes varies greatly. They also vary greatly in price and I am quite sure that many of the higher priced ones are very different to the homes that I have experience of. We now live in Cornwall and some of the places we see down here look more like retirement homes than care homes.

As I said, my experience is with homes that are available with assisted funding from social services. When my mum was due out of hospital, we were in the fortunate position that my sister has an important job with the Liverpool Royal, so we were probably given a bit more leeway as regards vacating her bed. She and I went to see each nursing home in the area where a vacancy came up. Of the first 10 we saw, there was only one in which we would even consider putting mum, and that bed had sadly been taken earlier that day. I think it was the 11/12th home we saw which we took, but by that time we were getting more pressure from the hospital. It was a good choice by the way. In the 3 months she was there she was permanently bedbound so I didn't really get to see the nursing home in action.

My wife has a lot more experience than I do with care homes, through her mum and her uncle who were both residents in different homes at the same time. We were away when her went into a care home after a brief hospital stay following a fall. It was all sorted by the time we got back by her brother and I think the missus would have tried to wait and get her into the same home as her uncle. As is often the case, it was the female (my wife) who takes the lead in these things, the brother just showing his face now and again and stepping up if we're away.

I understand that most nursing homes are made up of residential beds and nursing beds, but in my experience the majority of these council approved homes are mainly nursing beds. And the bed turnover rate of under 12 months I mentioned is the nursing bed figure. The combined figure is around 18 months. Some residents may live there for years, but the majority will pass away in less than 12 months and in pointing that out I don't believe I am painting a false picture.

My wife became friendly with the management and staff in both homes and she used to help out the cheerleader in both (her name for the resident events organiser). Having given up work to care for her mum and uncle she now found herself with time on her hands with them both being in homes. The staff do their best to organise things for residents to do but the vast majority didn't participate and most just stayed in their rooms, either through choice or through necessity.

I'm sorry if this doesn't conform with your experience with care homes, but as I say, I have no experience of the higher end market. Just the bargain basement stuff so to speak. As a matter of interest, I've always thought you lived in Ireland. if you do, how did you get to know so much about our care home system.?

As regards the EPAs, my wife had one to cover her mum for both financial and health matters. She said that it was some sort of consent form she was asked to sign by the care home, and that if we didn't sign it then they would try and resuscitate her mum. My sister said something similar regarding our mum but that was 7 years ago now so she wasn't absolutely sure of the actual wording. My wife wasn't asked to sign one for her uncle so she presumed he sign this himself. I'm not sure if this conforms with the legal requirements or not; I can only tell you what happened.

And thank you for your message of sympathy. My mum passed away a while ago now, but my wife is still struggling to come to terms. She's had a hard time over the last 5 years or so. She suffers with thyroid problems that they just can't seem to get the medication right for. She had breast cancer for which she is having hormone treatment which basically puts her through the change again, and she suffers from anxiety and depression, but refuses to take medication for this. So she is finding things hard to come to term with, and is most likely still grieving, even though her mum passed away over 2 years ago. Her uncle a bit more recently.

Great post mate and as you say you can only post from your own experience. I wouldn't disagree that you are likely to see a vairent of service provision and different businesses models either private or public.The process of entering long term care can be a multifaceted one, based on the financial process, care need, availability, emotional transition and availability - all contribute often to the world wind you describe that really only scratches the service. Your experience will be guided about how any one of those those facets personally incapacitated and it can be subjective.

I do live and practice in Ireland but i attended University, trained and lived in the UK and worked under the NHS and local health care provision in different areas in different parts of the Uk, so would be very familiar with the NHS model, ive worked abroad to - in the States, Australia and NZ. So i take an active interest as being familiar with local health care services and have many friends and colleagues still in these places.

Im currently practicing in a specific specialist area of medicine now, but attached to the acute Unit i work in, is 120 bed residential care unit for the long term care of older people. The average prognosis in that setting would be higher then 12-18 months on average and their is a huge richness to be achieved in that time frame in my opinion if you can work with people within the limits of their comorbidity's - that is not to say people dont have EOL needs and care there, but it would be nothing like the stats you mention, in my experience currently or historically in the Uk - maybe its changed it has been a number of years. Im not correcting you, perhaps there is a piece of research that needs to be done in regard to economics and health care outcomes in residential care for older people and measured against equity of service provision - if that is the case that is horrid, but perhaps that is the variable as opposed t the universality of all out comes.

Its an exciting time and liberating time for older people, their is growing awareness of the rights of older a people, abuse and legislation around preserving the rights of older people even in limited capacity. Perhaps your experience was a number of years ago on the DNR, it does sound like iffy practice that i would be concerned about, as would threatening around acute intervention if you did not comply and sign - very worrying. Hopefully things have moved on from then. When i was training in the UK - they were significantly ahead of the game in the care of older people, medicine and rights. Its sad to hear that maybe they haven't progressed beyond that appex in your experience - it was very inspirational at the time.

Sounds like you and your wife have had and have lots going on, the very best to your wife sounds like a tough station for you both at the moment and really hope you both come through as best you can, both from a personal health point of view and learning how to live with grief. Hope you both stay safe and well mate.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

[

With Johnson under fire, blame game begins over virus crisis

Media criticism intensifies after disclosure that only 2,000 NHS staff have been tested

www.ft.com

Subscribe to read is well known behavioural science to engender a fear of missing out.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

"Apparent" to who??

@peteblue lol

 

[Jebus_lives]

Damned if you do though? At the time there were many people looking at the terrible state of Italian hospitals and demanding we do something to avoid their fate. Something was done, and they weren't needed *shrug

For the record, as it doesn't seem clear from my earlier point, I have no issue with building the Nightingale hospitals, not their lack of use.

Better to have the capacity and it not be needed than not have it but need it.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Heaven forbid, what happens if they are needed ?

Better to have a safety net, than non at all.

The point was: why would you consciously increase the capacity then consciously decide to undermine your positionby not using them if they were needed?

They haven't been needed, but have successfully increased the capacity. Good cricket all round

 

[Neiler]

Jeepers i wouldn't go to school on a Friday either, if i could give 100k away to charity.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Its called emergency contingent planning.

The locations, the kit, the process of delivery, would have been part of a plan to wheel out if they might be needed. Once this is over, the kit will be back in storage for next time.

I know.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Just........WOW!

NHS staff coronavirus inquests told not to look at PPE shortages

Exclusive: guidance to avoid examining systemic failures is ‘very worrying’, says Labour

www.theguardian.com

That headline is misleading when you read the text of the article. It says "inquests told not to look at PPE shortages".

In reality it says.

"if there were reason to believe that some human failure contributed to the person being infected with the virus, an inquest may be required. The coroner may need to consider whether any failure of precautions in a particular workplace caused the deceased to contract the virus and so contributed to death"

In other words, you can have an inquest if you believe lack of PPE directly contributed to somebody's death.

What you can't do, according to the chief coroner, is use the context of the inquest to investigate "why" there was a PPE shortage, in other words to attach blame, or use the context of the inquest to criticise central government policy and systems.

When I first read that headline I thought that shortage of PPE was not a reason to hold an inquest into a NHS/care workers death. At least we know now that those that died due to a lack of PPE will be identified.

I have absolutely no idea whether this type of thing is usually included within Inquests, so not sure whether the instructions from the Chief Coroner are irregular or not. But the subject of why the PPE was so understocked still needs fully investigating and should be subject to some other form of enquiry once this is all over.

 

[BrendanGOT]

South Korean experts now saying that reinfections were actually false positives. More reports also suggesting that not one case of human to human transmission has been found from a child under 10. Good news after all. Wonder will that be on the news tonight?

 

[BrendanGOT]

That headline is misleading when you read the text of the article. It says "inquests told not to look at PPE shortages".

In reality it says.

"if there were reason to believe that some human failure contributed to the person being infected with the virus, an inquest may be required. The coroner may need to consider whether any failure of precautions in a particular workplace caused the deceased to contract the virus and so contributed to death"

In other words, you can have an inquest if you believe lack of PPE directly contributed to somebody's death.

What you can't do, according to the chief coroner, is use the context of the inquest to investigate "why" there was a PPE shortage, in other words to attach blame, or use the context of the inquest to criticise central government policy and systems.

When I first read that headline I thought that shortage of PPE was not a reason to hold an inquest into a NHS/care workers death. At least we know now that those that died due to a lack of PPE will be identified.

I have absolutely no idea whether this type of thing is usually included within Inquests, so not sure whether the instructions from the Chief Coroner are irregular or not. But the subject of why the PPE was so understocked still needs fully investigating and should be subject to some other form of enquiry once this is all over.

Not many seem to read beyond the title. The media know this.

 

[jamieni]

South Korean experts now saying that reinfections were actually false positives. More reports also suggesting that not one case of human to human transmission has been found of a child under 10. Good news after all. Wonder will that be on the news tonight?

Right, get my son back to preschool please!

in all seriousness, hope those findings re kids under 10 are confirmed.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I suspect there is a degree of spare capacity in that the acute emergency teams in our trust haven't sent out the sos to other departments for people with icu experience. That's good, as those backups are inevitably going to be lower quality as they will have been out of the game for x number of years, and I've no idea quite how many people fall into that bucket that can be called upon, but that's pretty much all they can do isn't it? The NHS can't magic new critical care staff out of thin air, and can't really import them from elsewhere (as presumably all countries are keen to retain such people right now). It's a case of doing the best with what you have.

They don't all have the same model either. For example the Manchester model was designed to accomodate Level 1 patients - who are relocated from more intensive care, who can be managed normally on an acute ward. They were not ventilated. The London Nightingale Hospital provides care for ventilated patients before they are able to recover in hospitals.

From the last figures I saw, albeit probably last week now, the Manchester Hospital had received 5 patients.

 

[Jamiednm]

Nice to see 'You'll Never Walk Alone' become forever associated with a horrible plague.