Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[arminisgod]

Deaths not the key issue is it? Main thing is how many, and the trend in new infections.

Also starting to fall even with more tests

 

[peteblue]

They can’t man them. The main one can’t operate at anywhere near its capacity and was reported as actually turning patients away, as they haven’t got the skilled ICU resource. They’re white elephants.

How do you know they cannot be staffed ?

 

[tsubaki]

How do you know they cannot be staffed ?

Pete they are hospitals with several hundred beds. To staff them requires staff, and the Army cannot assemble nurses in three weeks.

 

[Brisan123]

Feeling very unloved here Brisan

Stats should be confined to the coronavirus threads only
You post some very informative stats on those threads

 

[peteblue]

Pete they are hospitals with several hundred beds. To staff them requires staff, and the Army cannot assemble nurses in three weeks.

Again I would ask...how do you know they cannot be staffed....

 

[BrendanGOT]

Deaths not the key issue is it? Main thing is how many, and the trend in new infections.

Not really when we're all in lockdown and have been for some time. The R value is below R1, around R0.7. Our infections peaked before lockdown as people had already began being more hygiene conscious and distancing/ isolating themselves. So the main thing is definitely the trends of deaths atm and that they keep falling

 

[tsubaki]

Again I would ask...how do you know they cannot be staffed....

because the instructions were that staff had to be sent to the Nightingale whenever patients were transferred (edit) (two members of staff per eight patients):

Around a quarter of the 3,600 beds at the London Nightingale Hospital could be used for patients from Kent and Sussex, HSJ has learned.

Trusts in the two counties have been told they would also need to send their staff to work at the new hospital. For every eight patients they transfer to the site – at the Excel conference centre in East London – they must provide a nurse and a support worker.

Meanwhile, plans to set up a similar facility in the south east have been temporarily abandoned.

HSJ understands the plan was outlined to local trust chiefs last week. The proposal set out to local leaders was that the most seriously ill patients needing intensive care would stay at hospitals in Kent and Sussex, but other patients who were not critically unwell could be transferred to the Excel.

One senior source familiar with the proposals said the proposal to transfer staff “did not sit comfortably with them,” due to growing staff shortages locally. Many hospitals in the region are already seeing as many as 20 per cent of staff absent due to the covid-19 outbreak.

South East trusts told: send patients and staff to covid-surge hospital

Around a quarter of the 3,600 beds at the London Nightingale Hospital could be used for patients from Kent and Sussex, HSJ has learned.

www.hsj.co.uk

 

[LinekersLegs]

Are they aware that they have only been given a placebo?. Or aware that there is a 50% chance they are given a placebo.? Apologies if that information is contained within one of the links you posted.

Also what do you think about my comments about the death rates. Although we don't have any figures on recoveries here in the UK, the impression given is that death rate for those who spend lengthy times in hospital is a lot more than 10%. Well that's my take anyway.

No, neither the patient nor their doctors are aware they are given a placebo to avoid introducing bias (either deliberate or unconscious) into the study. Not all studies are 50% placebo either, iirc in the recent remdesivir trials it was only a third who got placebo. But that x% will get a placebo is clearly detailed on the consent form - or at least is meant to be as haven’t been involved in a trial myself!

Was going to do some research on those rates and see if they matched from other studies as couldn’t remember if those were typical or not, will get back to you when done a bit of digging.

 

[peteblue]

because the instructions were that staff had to be sent to the Nightingale whenever patients were transferred (one member of staff per eight patients):

South East trusts told: send patients and staff to covid-surge hospital

Around a quarter of the 3,600 beds at the London Nightingale Hospital could be used for patients from Kent and Sussex, HSJ has learned.

www.hsj.co.uk

Yes, I understand all that, but NHS rules can be slightly amended (see ppe) for an emergency, some EU countries have excess capacity and could allow staff to be brought in, the army has additional staff, non EU countries that have beaten this, Australia, NZ and those not overwhelmed Canada may actually be able to provide cover... Merely saying that they cannot be staffed is folly, there is always an answer...just because we are not aware of any preparations does not mean they don’t exist......

 

[spectateur]

For those of you interested in how your neighbours are dealing with the situation, well, France is still under rigorous lockdown, travel is not allowed and the borders are still closed other than to French nationals or permanent residents.
A reduction of restrictions is promised from 11th May - as long as the numbers new cases are not increasing.
We have just received the following message from the Préfecture de la Creuse.
I wonder how it would go down in free and easy England. It goes like this:-

"Reinforcement of controles for the 1st of May weekend-

Madame la préfèt is advising you on the occasion of the long weekend of the 1st of May, the gendarmerie and the police will intensify their checks on certificates of travel throughout the Departement of Creuse.
In effect 100 officers will be mobilised each day to carry out checks on the roads , at railway stations and at all the principal and secondary accesses to communes to control that regulations are being complied with.
The Préfèt reminds you that the measures of confinement remain unchanged until the 11th May and until then no relaxation will be tolerated.
Travel to visit relatives or to go to holiday homes is strictly forbidden, all deviations will be severely dealt with by the authorities.
The rule is to stay at home and therefore protect yourself and those close to you"

So, we have been told and warned!
We have had it lightly in this region, just 128 cases, 8 deaths and just 4 still hospitalised. No new cases recently.
Last thing we want is loads of "Parigos" (slang for Parisiens) coming down here and bringing more infection with them.

 

[Shevin Keedy]

Nice to see 'You'll Never Walk Alone' become forever associated with a horrible plague.

Yes right. Like it was not already.

 

[roydo]

We have just received the following message from the Préfecture de la Creuse.
I wonder how it would go down in free and easy England. It goes like this:-

Honestly?

Most would be fine with it. Many would welcome the minority of idiots being stopped being bellends.

 

[tsubaki]

Yes, I understand all that, but NHS rules can be slightly amended (see ppe) for an emergency, some EU countries have excess capacity and could allow staff to be brought in, the army has additional staff, non EU countries that have beaten this, Australia, NZ and those not overwhelmed Canada may actually be able to provide cover... Merely saying that they cannot be staffed is folly, there is always an answer...just because we are not aware of any preparations does not mean they don’t exist......

so is this you saying that there wasn't sufficient staff?

 

[NorthernBlue]

Mate sent me this from his work on a construction site. The worlds lost the plot.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Are they aware that they have only been given a placebo?. Or aware that there is a 50% chance they are given a placebo.? Apologies if that information is contained within one of the links you posted.

Also what do you think about my comments about the death rates. Although we don't have any figures on recoveries here in the UK, the impression given is that death rate for those who spend lengthy times in hospital is a lot more than 10%. Well that's my take anyway.

I’m assuming based on the below that patients enrolled in the NIH were hospitalized

NIH Clinical Trial of Remdesivir to Treat COVID-19 Begins | NIH: National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases

A randomized, controlled clinical trial to evaluate the safety and efficacy of the investigational antiviral remdesivir in hospitalized adults diagnosed with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) has begun at the University of Nebraska Medical Center (UNMC) in Omaha. The trial regulatory sponsor...

www.niaid.nih.gov

Participants in the NIH-sponsored trial must have laboratory-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection and evidence of lung involvement, including rattling sounds when breathing (rales) with a need for supplemental oxygen or abnormal chest X-rays, or illness requiring mechanical ventilation. Individuals with confirmed infection who have mild, cold-like symptoms or no apparent symptoms will not be included in the study. In accordance with standard clinical research protocols, eligible patients will provide informed consent to participate in the trial.

This was the data from people hospitalized in New York. New York healthcare was overwhelmed for a time which could well have increased the mortality recored to date. As their procedures improved (eg proning, not automatically ventilating for low oxygen saturation etc) you’d hope for the rates to come down as well.

Validate User

jamanetwork.com

In this case series that included 5700 patients hospitalized with COVID-19 in the New York City area, the most common comorbidities were hypertension, obesity, and diabetes. Among patients who were discharged or died (n = 2634), 14.2% were treated in the intensive care unit, 12.2% received invasive mechanical ventilation, 3.2% were treated with kidney replacement therapy, and 21% died.

Data from Georgia https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6918e1.htm
Among 281 (92.1%) patients who were no longer hospitalized at the time of data abstraction, 48 (17.1%) died.