Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[BlueToff]

S

Yes, lets

From the worldometers site, the same data source that the Spiked article used (although oddly despite the article being dated today they used the 17th April figures.

As of 22 nd April

Coronavirus Update (Live): 130,307,410 Cases and 2,842,464 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

Sweden
cases 16,004, cases per 1M pop 1585, total deaths 1937, deaths per 1m pop 192, tests 94,500, tests per 1m 9357
Norway
cases 7275, cases per 1M pop 1342, total deaths 185, deaths per 1m pop 34, tests 148,656, tests per 1m 27,421
Denmark
cases 7,912, cases per 1M pop 1366, total deaths 384 deaths per 1m pop 66, tests 108,465, tests per 1m 18,726
Finland
cases 4,129 cases per 1M pop 745, total deaths 149 deaths per 1m pop 27, tests 68,552, tests per 1m 12,372

And this was their “analysis”


See the distortion in the data the writer makes?
1) He uses data from last Friday which significantly reduces Sweden’s case/death numbers
2) Provides no context that the neighboring countries are doing far more testing so will likely have higher case numbers
3) Does not provide their deaths per 1m which are vastly better than Sweden, only compared it to Europe as a whole
4) Provides no context of when first case was recorded which is important in determining how long a country has had an outbreak - Norway’s numbers are probably flattered in this respect as they registered their first case about a month later than Sweden iirc but Finland’s was about the same so is still a useful comparison.

If you are making an honest assessment of data you include ALL of it and make your best conclusion based on it, not just cherry pick it to suit your argument. Although the Sweden example wasn’t as flagrant as him just writing off all of New York‘s 20,000 deaths as an “outlier” and therefore not worthy of inclusion In his “calculations”!

Compare it with its neighbours, Sweden have made a mistake not locking down.

Compare it with Spain, France, UK and Italy, they've done alright and not crashed their economy entirely.

There's no real winners in this anyway, but depending what point you're wanting to argue you can just put it either way.

 

[peteblue]

But compared with and viewed from France, the UK effort has always seemed to be a wishy washy half hearted effort. Guidelines rather than instructions and requests rather than orders.
But it is obviously difficult to control the public in a country that doesn't have a national ID system.

It’s always been the same. The U.K. tends not to go overboard like France. Fishing issue, block the ports, farming issue, burn tyres on the blocked roads, yellow vest march, send in the gendarmes and beat the crap out of them...it’s just the way they are....

 

[davmaher]

News just broke out all the M motorway roads particularly down south more traffic on them early am today - a guess is the self employed are skint and are going back to work ....?
Then a USA guy on Facebook preach Covid 19 is a hoax and how he was persuading other people to go about their daily lives normally has just died.........of Covid 19...

I've been up and down the M1 again today from Northampton up to Derby/Nottingham area. It was still really quiet. Also a lot more lorries than cars on it.

 

[Chewbacca]

The raab gibbon now boasts of building 7 hospitals. Erected 7 empty marquees more like. They really do think those who voted for them are idiots.

Yes they do

 

[BlueToff]

Ah well, different debate governments. they all generally subscribe to same economic system and that was with no doubt put first, some countries reacted better in the end!

This 'subscription to an economic system' argument is not the whole story though surely?

Doesn't matter what economy you have. People need jobs, mate. And the actions of governments mean people have lost them left right and centre (as much as governments have done to offer as much help as possible).

Then there's all the social factors of locking people away etc (on about vulnerable/older people here) - mental health etc.

It's 2020 and we've used something which was done to battle the plague 400 years ago. It's mental, really.

 

[BlueToff]

I've been up and down the M1 again today from Northampton up to Derby/Nottingham area. It was still really quiet. Also a lot more lorries than cars on it.

Roads around me were quieter today too.

 

[Tea_drinker]

And if our numbers had gone through the roof and overwhelmed the NHS you would be the first complaining about capacity. Better to have more than not enough.....

The point is that they didn't build 7 new hospitals. Hes lying.

 

[roydo]

The point is that they didn't build 7 new hospitals. Hes lying.

So they shouldnt of bothered then? "Built" "Increased Capacity". Whats the difference?

 

[Tea_drinker]

So they shouldnt of bothered then? "Built" "Increased Capacity". Whats the difference?

As long as you agree that all new build hospitals will be converted concert venues then hes not lying.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

This 'subscription to an economic system' argument is not the whole story though surely?

Doesn't matter what economy you have. People need jobs, mate. And the actions of governments mean people have lost them left right and centre (as much as governments have done to offer as much help as possible).

Then there's all the social factors of locking people away etc (on about vulnerable/older people here) - mental health etc.

It's 2020 and we've used something which was done to battle the plague 400 years ago. It's mental, really.

If the economic system is boring don't bother me with jobs and the economy crashing. The economic system allowed Cheltenham allowed Spanish fans to arrive in Liverpool...

And this kind virus was very high probability, it is after all Sars2 ( SARS-CoV-2).

 

[LinekersLegs]

S


Compare it with its neighbours, Sweden have made a mistake not locking down.

Compare it with Spain, France, UK and Italy, they've done alright and not crashed their economy entirely.

There's no real winners in this anyway, but depending what point you're wanting to argue you can just put it either way.

I’d suggest that Norway and Finland were better comparisons to Sweden in important metrics like healthcare/demographics/population density/social structures (Sweden has a lot of single person housing iirc) than UK, France Germany or Italy so would make better “control” cases to compare their actions to.

However I do agree there is some value in discussing Sweden deaths per 1m of 192 is still better than the UKs of 267.

My argument is more that you should try your best to make that analysis based on the full data, not cherry picked.

 

[BlueToff]

If the economic system is boring don't bother me with jobs and the economy crashing. The economic system allowed Cheltenham allowed Spanish fans to arrive in Liverpool...

And this kind virus was very high probability, it is after all Sars2 ( SARS-CoV-2).

Sorry, I changed the wording. I had been blasted as a 'Tory' on another forum because I said I was worried about my job (a few weeks ago) and this person used the same argument you have.

We should have been more prepared - the entirety of the west. And the WHO and China didn't help that either.

Australia and NZ have done well by acting early but nowhere in Europe acted early enough really - bar one or two of the smaller nations which have now had to restart in some form because they don't want their economies to crash completely either.

 

[roydo]

As long as you agree that all new build hospitals will be converted concert venues then hes not lying.

The one in Bristol is a kinda extension to an existing University Hospital.

Will convert back to part of the University in due course. The whole Nightingale project was so obviously part of a disaster plan that was already in place.

 

[BlueToff]

I’d suggest that Norway and Finland were better comparisons to Sweden in important metrics like healthcare/demographics/population density/social structures (Sweden has a lot of single person housing iirc) than UK, France Germany or Italy so would make better “control” cases to compare their actions to.

However I do agree there is some value in discussing Sweden deaths per 1m of 192 is still better than the UKs of 267.

My argument is more that you should try your best to make that analysis based on the full data, not cherry picked.

100% agree Legs! Just saying, the Sweden thing is being split down the middle by both sides of the argument when really it's probably just got a lot of cons but also a fair few pros as well - relative of course to pros and cons of the current situation.

They didn't go into lockdown because they backed their health care system to handle it. They'll probably end up with a higher proportion of deaths compared to countries of a similar size (as you say) which is obviously bad, but in terms of jobs and livelihoods they may have to spend less to get that all back up and running which could save more lives in the long run.

 

[Tea_drinker]

The one in Bristol is a kinda extension to an existing University Hospital.

Will convert back to part of the University in due course. The whole Nightingale project was so obviously part of a disaster plan that was already in place.

Yes, they have not built 7 new hospitals. The man is a liar.