Come on lads, it's time for the wailing an gnashing of teeth to stop.

[Hibee]

First, maybe even last ha ha, post on this forum. I'm a Hibs fan but have family in Liverpool and go to watch Everton when I'm down visiting so I have a bit of affection for the club. That today lads and lassies was bloody tough to watch and I could feel your pain with every passing minute of the second half especially ... you must be absolutely raging at every one of the players and the manager. For sure it was at Anfield and Liverpool clearly have some talented kids, but even so that was pitiful.

Sometimes a club has a watershed moment .. Thankfully for Everton it probably wont be getting relegated, but that defeat could be one anyway. If there was any doubt Everton need a massive kick up the backside then it was put to bed by that game. Sometimes its better to have reality stuffed down your throat than to chug along thinking everything will work out by itself in the end. That's what happened to my club 8 years ago when we were stuffed 5 - 1 by Hearts in the cup final and then relegated a few years later, it doesn't get any more grim than that ... That was the moment that made us face reality and shake things up from top to bottom, a few years later we had broken a 114 year long cup hoodoo ( Thanks to 2 dyed in the wool Evertonians ) and were back in the top league playing to an average of 18,000 our biggest in 40 years.

If Everton can use this low point as a motivational tool from the owners down to the tea lady like Hibs did, then far from being the disaster it looks now it could be a turning point. You have what looks like an absolutely magnificent new stadium just a few years away and which keeps the club within the city where it belongs, you have a fantastic set of fans from what I've experienced at Goodison, who stick by the club no matter what Liverpool do, and it looks like the finances are in good shape as well. That seems like the ingredients for a bright future if you ask me and if the club use them properly there's no reason that in a few years time you won't look back on that game as a good thing ( if a derby defeat can ever be such a thing ) even if it doesn't look that way now.

Onwards and upwards eh.

 

[Furey1878]

It was another loss to a decent bunch of Liverpool players with a pretty untalented Everton team.

This is what happens with the Everton team erected in the last 3 seasons or so with too much cash. This is the Zombie Everton lingering on.

Let's hand Carlo the tools to transform us and get these players out and his own better quality players in.

I dont even consider this ground zero. That happened weeks ago at Anfield with that 5-2 mauling. Decisions were taken then which ended up with us having a genius manager in our dugout. As long as he's backed, he'll get us our position and status back in a couple of seasons.

Five or six of Ancelotti type players in to add to a small handful of the current lot and we'll be a different proposition next season. It's going to get better. Much, much better.

Thanks Dave.

Been a dark, dark day this. It’s good to have some reassurance.

 

[Mildredblues]

Fair points. On the other hand, Carlo has no history of performing such a transformation.

 

[Rooney_Tunes]

My worry is we get dragged onto a relegation battle

The teams below us are all picking up points and as we stand we are 5 points off the bottom 3, After today I wouldn't trust any of these lot in a dog fight

I'd just play the youngsters and transfer list all of them.

 

[Mildredblues]

Who is to say that Ancelotti and Brands don’t go and bring in 5 players we would consider to be very good only for them to have no discernible impact on Everton’s team? When players join Liverpool they get better and better, faster, stronger, less injury prone, more consistent. When they join Everton they get slower, weaker, more injury prone, and worse

Spot on with this, I'm afraid. You only have to look at how highly rated the likes of Moise Kean, Sigurdsson, Michael Keane, Fab Delph,etc. were before joining. Look at how optimistic everyone got after their signings on the player pages here.
Carlo has to change the club culture somehow along with Moshiri and Brands.. This process of forever clearing out players has to end. I dont think any other club anywhere clears out so many players on a whim(excluding those for financial malfunctioning obviously). This isn't some football manager style game.

 

[Freund's throat]

Does Ancelotti have the fight for a fundamental rebuild or does he want a final payday before he retires? That's the problem worrying most of us IMO.

 

[hktoffee]

It was another loss to a decent bunch of Liverpool players with a pretty untalented Everton team.

This is what happens with the Everton team erected in the last 3 seasons or so with too much cash. This is the Zombie Everton lingering on.

Let's hand Carlo the tools to transform us and get these players out and his own better quality players in.

I dont even consider this ground zero. That happened weeks ago at Anfield with that 5-2 mauling. Decisions were taken then which ended up with us having a genius manager in our dugout. As long as he's backed, he'll get us our position and status back in a couple of seasons.

Five or six of Ancelotti type players in to add to a small handful of the current lot and we'll be a different proposition next season. It's going to get better. Much, much better.

Think he needs to get 3 this month.

And we will move up the table and hopefully a Europa place.

 

[Letmein]

Everton is a club that has a 'Fear of Failure'. The club has developed a culture of being content to sit as a middle tier club for which there is no expectation for success. With no expectation, responsibility and accountability for success the culture has developed to be content with mediocrity than risk the 'hurt of challenging and potentially falling short in achieving any form of success.

 

[Eggs]

.....had we been organised, tactically astute and won everybody would be praising Ancelotti. We were disorganised, tactically poor and lost so Ancelotti should also be accountable.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

It was another loss to a decent bunch of Liverpool players with a pretty untalented Everton team.

This is what happens with the Everton team erected in the last 3 seasons or so with too much cash. This is the Zombie Everton lingering on.

Let's hand Carlo the tools to transform us and get these players out and his own better quality players in.

I dont even consider this ground zero. That happened weeks ago at Anfield with that 5-2 mauling. Decisions were taken then which ended up with us having a genius manager in our dugout. As long as he's backed, he'll get us our position and status back in a couple of seasons.

Five or six of Ancelotti type players in to add to a small handful of the current lot and we'll be a different proposition next season. It's going to get better. Much, much better.

Dave! Somebody has hijacked your account!

 

[toffeeblue9]

It was another loss to a decent bunch of Liverpool players with a pretty untalented Everton team.

This is what happens with the Everton team erected in the last 3 seasons or so with too much cash. This is the Zombie Everton lingering on.

Let's hand Carlo the tools to transform us and get these players out and his own better quality players in.

I dont even consider this ground zero. That happened weeks ago at Anfield with that 5-2 mauling. Decisions were taken then which ended up with us having a genius manager in our dugout. As long as he's backed, he'll get us our position and status back in a couple of seasons.

Five or six of Ancelotti type players in to add to a small handful of the current lot and we'll be a different proposition next season. It's going to get better. Much, much better.

Opened this thread more than half-expecting to disagree with a Dave post.

As it happens, this is spot on. Darkest day in our history? We've conceded four or more to them three times in the previous decade - all of those were worse to me.

The kids thing will get used as a stick to beat us with, but TBH they were a decent side. They are well coached and show the benefit of a consistent system, way of playing and coaching right throughout their age groups. As things stand, you couldn't exactly say what our system is or what our style is, so we can never have that luxury of an U23 player stepping into our team and automatically knowing their role in a system they already know.

Embarrassing? Yep, but I've become numb to that as far as derbies are concerned. Anybody who was expecting a dominant performance with a midfield of Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson was living in cloud cuckoo land. Any sort of movement and energy is going to make them look like the dossers they are.

Ancelotti hasn't really changed anything at all yet, by his own admission. All we've done is to prepare for games and recover from them over the Christmas/New Year period. This week will be the first time he's had chance to actually "coach" the team. That's worth remembering in the current mass wrist-slitting episode.

I'm gutted, but no more or less gutted than I would have been if they'd started with Salah, Firmino and Mane. What it should show you is that 4 years of coaching from an elite world class manager and a coherent transfer strategy make a world of difference. We may well never reach the level they've got to in the last 18 months or so, but give a world class manager a bit of time and purge the club of the deadwood over the next 18 months and we will see the benefits.

 

[Lelouch]

.....had we been organised, tactically astute and won everybody would be praising Ancelotti. We were disorganised, tactically poor and lost so Ancelotti should also be accountable.

When our players can't put any of the easy chances they had in the first half the blame does not fall on Ancelotti, Liverpool kept posession better but did they really create any good opportunities? Apart from the new player header, no.
The 2nd half performance I don't even know where to describe that the players just collapsed and struggled to win the ball back, Gylfi and Morgan are a major problem but Delph and Davies aren't the solution so what are we suppose to do? Ancelotti has had a rush of games in this Christmas period and witnessed Morgan for the first time yesterday and hopefully the last.

 

[toffeeblue9]

Fair points. On the other hand, Carlo has no history of performing such a transformation.

That's not completely true TBF - worth going back and having a look at what he actually did at Milan and the state they were in after Fatih Terim left.

 

[Glasshalffull]

.....had we been organised, tactically astute and won everybody would be praising Ancelotti. We were disorganised, tactically poor and lost so Ancelotti should also be accountable.

While the logic can't be faulted, I don't think it's quite that simple. If I'm a new manager of anything, the staff do what I tell them and it works out, then I deserve some credit. If I tell them what to do and they're too stupid, idle or incompetent to do it, then that isn't really my fault at a very early stage of my management. If they still don't /can't do what I say after 3 or 6 months, that'll be a different matter.

 

[Dublin blue 75]

Thanks Dave. A bright read on a dark, miserable wet Monday morning. At least Carlo has now directly experienced the misery of watching our current bunch put in their standard Anfield shift. Hoping this will be one of the last such experiences as he begins his cull/rebuilding process. The evidence as to who he needs to start with played out right before his eyes yesterday.