Current Affairs China and its treatment of minorities

[Mr. White]

What are your thoughts and experience of the CCP, mate?

Experience? They've kept a low profile, so not much. My last trip, I barely saw any police. They were holding back, so as not to be provocative.

They've responded to widespread violence. Intersections have been routinely smashed up, underground stations vandalised, businesses attacked. This in turn has affected the tourism industry. Businesses and livelihoods ruined. There should be a consequence to such violence and disorder. I wish the UK would do the same and toughen up.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Respectfully I disagree. Having lived in HK for several years I’m of the opinion that the U.K. still feels a duty of care to the locals and almost regret their decision to build power plants in the new territories, which kind of snookered them when they had to hand it back as Kowloon and HK island (which were meant to be not China for perpetuity) would have had no power, plus we should have installed a democratic process in the 80s (which we almost did). There is also an sense of wanting from a lot of the Cantonese population who would prefer to be a British colony than their current arrangement (see a poll by the south China star paper IIRC).

Personally I think the world has become aware of their threat a little late. When a country builds islands out of nothing in order to claim the territory in the South China Sea the whole world should have been on them

Indeed a little late to worry about islands, I'm more worried about the static nuclear bombs in the guise of power stations here in the UK the CCP have been allowed to build and various over infrastructure they are involved in. The special access they have to our financial sector etc. Oh yes we'll show them over 5g...

And much too late for turn the over cheek Tory Government to rectify, they have been at the forefront legitimising the CCP on the world stage and they are here to stay...

Remember Hong Kong for what it was. It's gone now!

 

[Paul Rideout]

Indeed a little late to worry about islands, I'm more worried about the static nuclear bombs in the guise of power stations here in the UK the CCP have been allowed to build and various over infrastructure they are involved in. The special access they have to our financial sector etc. Oh yes we'll show them over 5g...

And much too late for turn the over cheek Tory Government to rectify, they have been at the forefront legitimising the CCP on the world stage and they are here to stay...

Remember Hong Kong for what it was. It's gone now!

You know they were building islands in the South China Sea before the torries were in power, right?

also I’m pretty sure Gordon Brown accepting Chinese rule of Tibet was legitimisation of the CCPs ruling.

this should go beyond petty ‘tory’ this and ‘labour’ that. This is actually serious, and the buck doesn’t stop at one party - everyone (red, blue, yellow and all the other dross ones) has been blinded by greed here.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

You know they were building islands in the South China Sea before the torries were in power, right?

also I’m pretty sure Gordon Brown accepting Chinese rule of Tibet was legitimisation of the CCPs ruling.

this should go beyond petty ‘tory’ this and ‘labour’ that. This is actually serious, and the buck doesn’t stop at one party - everyone (red, blue, yellow and all the other dross ones) has been blinded by greed here.

Yes indeed that Prime Minster Corbyn inviting good old Uncle Xi to a state visit, signing various trade deals...lol

Chinese buy President Xi and David Cameron visit pub

A village pub made famous by the visit of China's President Xi Jinping and David Cameron is bought by Chinese investors.

www.bbc.co.uk

Of course it's important and serious for a trade deal with Trump we have to be seen to be on America side, let's hope Trump wins November's election or we going to see one of the biggest geopolitical diplomatic u-turns ever known.

Whatever happened to the mantra of bringing the CCP a nefarious dictatorship into the Western fold...

 

[Paul Rideout]

Yes indeed that Prime Minster Corbyn inviting good old Uncle Xi to a state visit, signing various trade deals...lol

Chinese buy President Xi and David Cameron visit pub

A village pub made famous by the visit of China's President Xi Jinping and David Cameron is bought by Chinese investors.

www.bbc.co.uk

Of course it's important and serious for a trade deal with Trump we have to be seen to be on America side, let's hope Trump wins November's election or we going to see one of the biggest geopolitical diplomatic u-turns ever known.

Whatever happened to the mantra of bringing the CCP a nefarious dictatorship into the Western fold...

Give this a read... it’s about U.K. Chinese relations over the period of labour

Britain's foreign policy toward China 1997-2001 – E-International Relations

Economic engagement with China serves Britain's commercial interests while it also allows the UK government to put human rights at the heart of British foreign policy toward China. Through economic interdependence and participation in international organizations, the United Kingdom and China...

www.e-ir.info

I don’t know why you’re trying to politicise this, it’s nothing to do with being a labour or tory supporter (I’m a full swing voter fwiw). All sides have been buttering up their backsides for China money, it reflects well in gdp which is a reflection of how they’re doing in governance. No one is in the clear on that count.

wrt importance of a trade deal with the USA, m I don’t know what that’s got to do with opposing China. I don’t see it as siding with the us but rather siding with Australia and also siding against a state who is starting to take the piss diplomatically.

I do think it would be easier for the country if we did get a trade deal done quick, but we shouldn’t bend over backwards, and I’m not sure whether trump would try to make us touch our toes or not... there’s a big push for better CANZUK Relations, particularly in the CANZ countries, if I had any influence that’s where my focus would be as that’s a quick turn around (months not years for a trade deal). I do however think trump will win (sadly, but also not sadly). Just because Biden is a bad candidate & the likes of Kanye West saying he’s running (if he does) will likely detract from the Democrat votes more than the republican ones.

but to me there is a low correlation between being opposed to China and us kissing America’s bottom.l to get a trade deal.

 

[peteblue]

Bubonic plague now apparently......the country that just keeps on giving.......

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Give this a read... it’s about U.K. Chinese relations over the period of labour

Britain's foreign policy toward China 1997-2001 – E-International Relations

Economic engagement with China serves Britain's commercial interests while it also allows the UK government to put human rights at the heart of British foreign policy toward China. Through economic interdependence and participation in international organizations, the United Kingdom and China...

www.e-ir.info

I don’t know why you’re trying to politicise this, it’s nothing to do with being a labour or tory supporter (I’m a full swing voter fwiw). All sides have been buttering up their backsides for China money, it reflects well in gdp which is a reflection of how they’re doing in governance. No one is in the clear on that count.

wrt importance of a trade deal with the USA, m I don’t know what that’s got to do with opposing China. I don’t see it as siding with the us but rather siding with Australia and also siding against a state who is starting to take the piss diplomatically.

I do think it would be easier for the country if we did get a trade deal done quick, but we shouldn’t bend over backwards, and I’m not sure whether trump would try to make us touch our toes or not... there’s a big push for better CANZUK Relations, particularly in the CANZ countries, if I had any influence that’s where my focus would be as that’s a quick turn around (months not years for a trade deal). I do however think trump will win (sadly, but also not sadly). Just because Biden is a bad candidate & the likes of Kanye West saying he’s running (if he does) will likely detract from the Democrat votes more than the republican ones.

but to me there is a low correlation between being opposed to China and us kissing America’s bottom.l to get a trade deal.

What nonsense first you waffle on about politicising then you drop in your bias.

You are fooling yourself like others, and it's contributing reason how the CCP has managed to establish itself.

Not to worry the CCP will look after you and your culture wars.

 

[Brennan]

Bubonic plague now apparently......the country that just keeps on giving.......

The US experiences several cases of plague every year, but that doesn’t make a good news story.

 

[Paul Rideout]

What nonsense first you waffle on about politicising then you drop in your bias.

You are fooling yourself like others, and it's contributing reason how the CCP has managed to establish itself.

Not to worry the CCP will look after you and your culture wars.

I’m actually providing a counter to your massive one sidedness so as to show any rational human being that reads this dialogue that your constant bashing of one party rather than all of them is ridiculous.

If you can’t see that then you need to take those blinkers off mate.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

I’m actually providing a counter to your massive one sidedness so as to show any rational human being that reads this dialogue that your constant bashing of one party rather than all of them is ridiculous.

If you can’t see that then you need to take those blinkers off mate.

I make no claim otherwise to my distrust of the Tory Government and I'm rather proud of my conviction and principles, I'm not for turning.

And as for Hong Kong and CCP and UK's relationship, there will be lots of talk and statements about safe harbor of people and 5g, but no action untill after American presidential election. I wonder why!?

 

[Big Sams Undies]

I make no claim otherwise to my distrust of the Tory Government and I'm rather proud of my conviction and principles, I'm not for turning.

And as for Hong Kong and CCP and UK's relationship, there will be lots of talk and statements about safe of harbor people and 5g, but no action untill after American presidential election. I wonder why!?

He's not saying you're wrong to be anti Tory but you can't bash them for something whilst totally ignoring the fact that Labour were guilty of exactly the same thing when in office.

Hypocrisy in the extreme.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

He's not saying you're wrong to be anti Tory but you can't bash them for something whilst totally ignoring the fact that Labour were guilty of exactly the same thing when in office.

Hypocrisy in the extreme.

Not my hypocrisy never voted for Blair or Brown...

However, after 10 years of Labour being last in Government it's time the Conservatives who have been in charge of our relations with CCP take responsibility from 2010, it is after all now 2020...

Your interjection would have validity if couple of years after the last Labour Government, a decade now, not a chance.

 

[Paul Rideout]

I make no claim otherwise to my distrust of the Tory Government and I'm rather proud of my conviction and principles, I'm not for turning.

And as for Hong Kong and CCP and UK's relationship, there will be lots of talk and statements about safe harbor of people and 5g, but no action untill after American presidential election. I wonder why!?

Again, not to let you railroad this away from the salient point. I’m providing balance BECAUSE you’re obviously and unashamedly (quite rightly too if the Labour Party hold your principles, even though Blair/brown to Corbyn to Stamer are 3 markedly different sets of principles) putting down non-labour without any perspective and balance of the political sphere as a whole. I’d happily state the shortcomings of all on CCP relations.

To a point you’re correct, the USA has the worlds largest most advanced military, it makes sense to secure political direction of the worlds largest power before action is taken. However Australia and India have already taken action. Australia is china’s largest exporter of iron ore (China gets 85% of its iron ore from Australia) which it needs for building anything, construction takes up a large part of china’s gdp growth. Economies are taking action in non-militaristic methods such as removal of Chinese companies from their respective industries, plus India has been involved in military scuffles along the Himalayan border so there’s already some military conflict.

This isn’t predominantly because of Hong Kong granted, but there is a summation of Chinese issues which are straws on a camels back... eventually it will break unless something is done by China to reverse their transgressions.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Again, not to let you railroad this away from the salient point. I’m providing balance BECAUSE you’re obviously and unashamedly (quite rightly too if the Labour Party hold your principles, even though Blair/brown to Corbyn to Stamer are 3 markedly different sets of principles) putting down non-labour without any perspective and balance of the political sphere as a whole. I’d happily state the shortcomings of all on CCP relations.

To a point you’re correct, the USA has the worlds largest most advanced military, it makes sense to secure political direction of the worlds largest power before action is taken. However Australia and India have already taken action. Australia is china’s largest exporter of iron ore (China gets 85% of its iron ore from Australia) which it needs for building anything, construction takes up a large part of china’s gdp growth. Economies are taking action in non-militaristic methods such as removal of Chinese companies from their respective industries, plus India has been involved in military scuffles along the Himalayan border so there’s already some military conflict.

This isn’t predominantly because of Hong Kong granted, but there is a summation of Chinese issues which are straws on a camels back... eventually it will break unless something is done by China to reverse their transgressions.

Not sure what year you are in or reality. There has been no Labour government for 10 years...

Care to mention how a succession of Conservative Governments in the last decade who have suckled on the teat of Uncle Xi and the CCP, you know for balancelol

Hong Kong is gone and behind the scenes Xi will be happy there can be cleansing, of course he will play hard man for the home land, but those who can leave for our shores will leave.

The skill set in the financial world Hong kong is no longer needed, Cameron and Osbourne made sure of that in 2015.

 

[Paul Rideout]

Not sure what year you are in or reality. There has been no Labour government for 10 years...

Care to mention how a succession of Conservative Governments in the last decade who have suckled on the teat of Uncle Xi and the CCP, you know for balancelol

Hong Kong is gone and behind the scenes Xi will be happy there can be cleansing, of course he will play hard man for the home land, but those who can leave for our shores will leave.

The skill set in the financial world Hong kong is no longer needed, Cameron and Osbourne made sure of that in 2015.

Sure. If you notice every post I’ve said, it starts with a counter point then says this isn’t about politics, in order to try and depoliticise the debate, because parties don’t matter. I’ve voted conservative once in my life, labour once and Lib Dem twice. The Lib Dem votes were largely to prevent tories gaining a seat in Southport - it was a quasi tactical vote. I never voted for Blair or brown (like you).

This article I pulled off the internet is pretty damning. Describes how the govt sold us down the river. Excuse the name of it, it literally is the best succinct piece I can find.

Nick Timothy: The Government is selling our national security to China | Conservative Home

In his new ConservativeHome column, launched today, Theresa May's former Chief of Staff fears money is coming before safety.

www.conservativehome.com

Care to post one about labour? This isn’t about parties (once AGAIN) it’s about democracy and the threat to it. The fact that you say you won’t be moved from voting labour highlights that you’re literally a victim of indoctrination... but then you say you didn’t vote for Blair/brown... so which is it.

I have a feeling you’re just arguing to win and not debating or learning about l the actual point in hand away from your indocrtined viewpoints, and you’ve started to contradict yourself. Plus you’re not looking at the structure of what I write. I counter your openly bias viewpoints then say it’s not about parties. I provide political balance then try to depoliticise this. This is more than party factions (obviously). I’ll let you have the last word your so glaringly desiring however. Well done, you turned a debate into a shouting match with your hands over your eyes and ear muffs on.

China can’t play the hard man, it hasn’t established itself in the western powers enough and it relies on Aussie exports. It does own much of Africa and South America through its road rail programme, but ever Africa is starting to turn on them (see Ethiopia).

Re: usefulness of HK, To an extent you’re right, because Singapore exists & has set itself up as direct competition as I have a feeling they could see this coming. Hong Kong isn’t vital to the financial infrastructure, so companies will move their APAC HQs there. But to suggest it’s because of what happened in 2015 is weird, geopolitical moves are long term and span several decades & governments, that move was just the next step. If you are serious about this topic, I’d suggest getting your head out of your indoctrinated sand and look at the global picture over the last 40 years. China is playing the long game. Stop thinking in cycles that only begin with the change of U.K. political parties.