Centre-midfield - we need to take the brakes off

[hudd101]

I think McCarthy can be a great number 8 (box-to-box) kind of midfielder for us. He's certainly got the stamina to do so. When he breaks from midfield I'm urging him to carry on into the area or play a forward pass instead of playing the easier ball. But maybe Martinez doesn't want him to do this? It would give us another option from midfield to create a chance instead of us playing often too wide without any end product (ie. cross or incisive through ball).

Another problem, especially at home, is how deep teams sit off us. We're very reluctant to cross the ball and there is no space in behind for attacking players to make a run; often this results in us having to take long shots or no shot whatsoever.

 

[steken1]

I think they can both do as good as any other holding midfield player in the league. What you're arguing for in wanting the pair of them in there is a belt and braces approach.

Sometimes you just have to accept that though you might not be as solid in the middle, you are likely to be more of a potent unit going forward if one is more of an accomplished ball carrying/distributing type.

McCarthy: I dont see a player who can drive to the edge of the box consistently and I dont see a player who can finish from there either. He's a traditional holding midfielder - going to be one of the best if he's tasked with that.

I was against the McCarthy signing for the reasons you mention. I'm glad we got him now because energy wise and mentally I think he's got everything to be one of the best, if not the best, holding player in the league.

Gibson can do either job though.

 

[davek]

I was against the McCarthy signing for the reasons you mention. I'm glad we got him now because energy wise and mentally I think he's got everything to be one of the best, if not the best, holding player in the league.

Gibson can do either job though.

Gibson yeah. But you never feel he's really part of it for us due to injury.

 

[slimspek]

I always get the feeling McCarthy is scared of going in the attacking third which might explain why he has such poor goal scoring and assist stats. Whenever he is there he always goes for the easy pass out to the wings. If he's going to be a box-to-box mid he is going to have to get over whatever mental hurdle he has about the final third.

 

[Carlito]

I think Martinez definitely needs to improve his options in centre midfield.

The current set up is solid and enables Everton to control much of the play, but the lack of a goal threat will always make it easier for opposing teams to sit tight and fancy turning a loss into a draw or win with just one or two counter-attacks.

I'd take Ki from Sunderland and, as DaveK mentioned, Ben Arfa from Newcastle.

 

[toffeeben15]

Ki would be a decent option

 

[micknick]

It's not about the number of attacking players though, it's about the quality and type of player.

McCarthy regularly gets into the opposition half and the final third, but he doesn't really know what to do with the ball when he gets it. He's fantastic for cleaning up and chasing down lost causes, but he's not going to slide a pass through for Lukaku to smash into the back of the net.

Did you not see the ball he played through to Naismith or the ball through to Delfoof?

 

[Brownie]

Forgive me for Euro football indulgence, but it's a good example and it's relevant to Martinez. This is basically the difference between Barcelona and Spain. Spain play with Alonso and Busquets deep, Barca have just Busquets. There's a clear difference in how they play as a result, the national side tend to have one massive blob of players in midfield, leaving absolutely no gaps and gradually wearing you down to win 1-0, whereas Barcelona make their players stick resolutely to their assigned areas of the pitch, pull you all over the place and then watch Messi destroy everyone. Neither's necessarily correct but pure 4-3-3 is definitely braver and more attractive when it works.

 

[Gwladys St. Glory]

BRoWNz is 3'2", needs a cane to walk and lives in a swamp...

 

[deipnosophist]

Gibson yeah. But you never feel he's really part of it for us due to injury.

...hopefully this extended lay off and extensive biometrics on his leg strength etc might provide some smooth sailing seas (injury wise) for Gibbo next season. (I won't be holding my breath though)

 

[kenada_blue]

Martinez uses McCarthy to sit deep alongside Barry to gain domination in possession and allow the full backs to get forward. But during the game McCarthy's role changes he is pushed on when he needs to or when Barry moves forward he stays back a bit. Against certain teams, he is used to close down people higher up the pitch or wherever the ball maybe be. The way Martinez wants us to play, his role is quite central (forgive the pun) a holding role, closing down, getting forward (setting up the goal against Southampton for example), getting stuck in with tackles like yesterday.

There are some sides to his game that he needs to work on shooting, sometimes final pass for example. But I can see why people on the Republic's staff say he can and should get the game by the scruff of the neck. I don't always like making comparisons but he reminds so much of Howie Kendall, who was Catterick's 'brains' on the pitch. A high accolade I know but I think with the input of Martin O'Neil and Roy Keane, and gaining international experience, and working more with Coleman, McGeady and Gibson his game will improve, he will also learn so much from Barry.

Yup - The set up of 2 holding CM's is needed because we play with basically 2 defenders.

Both wing backs spend more time in the opposition half, with the wingers, AM and striker all attacking in front of them.

We don't concede many goals. Have one of the best defences in the league which is mainly down to Barry and McCarthy protecting the centre halves and helping the fullbacks out.

Its more of a case of a complete attacking midfielder off the striker rather than relying on Barkley who's still a work in progress, and Osman, that's the problem.

 

[Kiwi]

When I've watched us Its actually been Pienaar that slows our attacking impetus. Sure at times the CM's could up the tempo a bit (which as we improve over time will happen), but Pienaar , gets on the ball, slows it down then plays the pass. This is why he's so important for our ball retention, but he needs to mix it up occaisionally for when we're flowing on attack. Too often he breaks down the flow of a move, and we become static in the final third.

 

[VaguelyBrown]

I imagine Bobby will want to keep playing with two deep lying midfielders, we just need one or two more players that can both play and think fast, so the phase change between defense and attack can be made a bit faster. Our attacks still give the opposition too much time to get men behind the ball.

This may come to McCarthy with time and training, perhaps? Otherwise, we probably do need a play-maker type to come in. I reckon anyway.

 

[billycopper]

I think they can both do as good as any other holding midfield player in the league. What you're arguing for in wanting the pair of them in there is a belt and braces approach.

Sometimes you just have to accept that though you might not be as solid in the middle, you are likely to be more of a potent unit going forward if one is more of an accomplished ball carrying/distributing type.

McCarthy: I dont see a player who can drive to the edge of the box consistently and I dont see a player who can finish from there either. He's a traditional holding midfielder - going to be one of the best if he's tasked with that.

Fair enough point. I think that there are issues in our build up play as well though.

i) We lack somebody with vision who can switch play quickly or time a through ball.
ii) We lack movement from the forward line.
iii) We tend not to be able to play quick, one-touch football to get into the penalty area.
iv) Our shooting generally lacks the accuracy of our rivals.
v) We very often make the wrong choice when bearing down on goal.

If I was the manager I'd look to improve the quality of play coming from our current forward line before I looked to make a move that could destabilise our defence.

 

[billycopper]

When I've watched us Its actually been Pienaar that slows our attacking impetus. Sure at times the CM's could up the tempo a bit (which as we improve over time will happen), but Pienaar , gets on the ball, slows it down then plays the pass. This is why he's so important for our ball retention, but he needs to mix it up occaisionally for when we're flowing on attack. Too often he breaks down the flow of a move, and we become static in the final third.

I'd argue that Osman is more culpable of slowing down our play. Every time he receives the ball he takes a touch to control it and then looks up for options. Pienaar is pretty good at playing it first time. I think it could work quite well to have Peanuts in the middle threading balls inside the fullback for Mirallas, Deulofeu, McGeady and Lukaku.

 

[Loz]

A good thread this. Personally, I think that I would start with Lukaku instead of Naismith (although Naismith has been playing well recently and does run his heart out) and keep young Deulofeu on the pitch in the number 10 role. Both Lukaku and Deulofeu drag at least two defenders when they make runs due to their power (Lukaku) and pace and trickery (Deulofeu). You could see West Ham defenders backing off Deulofeu when he started to run at them and his step overs began.
This creates a bit more space up front and we are less static and more dangerous that way.
I also agree that Pienaar seems to be guilty of slowing down a lot of our attacking play at the moment as he doesn't want to look for a quick pass even when he is on the corner of the box and only seems to want to wait for Leighton to arrive before playing it to him. We will need a bit more pace to our attacks against Arsenal.....

 

[Ashtonian]

Personally for our midfield to flourish we need a better passer. Someone who can create chances or when keeping hold of the ball can see the gaps to bring players into the attack. They cost money and obviously every issue relates back to the original one but if we had that sort of player, dare i say arteta in his prime, our midfield would be incredibly effective.

Now i do see Barkley as 'potentially' being that man. I think he has got the range of passing on him but is massively inexperienced as you would expect. I ope if he could be that sort of player then we could really be the differenc ein our team.

 

[Ihaters]

Said before Christmas, as good as our run was back then, we were starting to look toothless and a large part of that was down to having 2 DM's especially against the poorer teams.

People who say its more attacking because our RB goes forwards as well, miss a big point for me... For a defender to run all the way up the pitch to join an attack, is not as attacking as already having someone up there.

For me, 7 defenders against a poor team = lack of threat, and waste of superiority,expecially when we slowly allow their defence to muster behind the ball again once we've got it.

We're doing well on individual brilliance mostly under Martinez, rather than the quality of our team play in attack... a Mirallas run and shot, the same from Deu, a long ranger from Barkley etc.

Coleman is great at attacking from RB, but its less attacking than Deulefeu for example, because he's already up there. Sack Barry or McCarthy off for a game against lesser teams and instead play an attacking linenp such as Pienaar, Mirallas, Deulefeu & Barkley behind Lukaku and you'll see a lot more attacking threat.... imo of course.