Current Affairs Afghanistan

[Wizard]

No, you are just being stupid. Again, if you have anything to add to the situation or issues in Afghanistan then please comment. If all you are going to do is play politics find another thread…..

You’re the one playing politics. I’m just calling you out on it and using your arguments against you. Which you clearly aren’t happy with as you keep calling me stupid.

The situation is an awful mess. Politically, in humanitarian terms. There is blame all over the place for this going back 20 years. The current situation was started by Trump, followed through with by Biden and our spineless mess of a government have gone along with it.

BLM and the lefties are the least of the issues here which is why I find it so weird you brought them into the conversation.

 

[peteblue]

I don't know if there was any way to prevent all of this short of just occupying Afghanistan forever and that feels wrong too

It’s not a case of occupation. More a case of backing up the government and army. The Taliban were under control, the illusion of an Afghan force backed up by western powers was enough to keep it that way. Once the provision of support was removed, the Taliban came out and the Afghan forces lost their backbone…..

 

[longers]

Mad Twitter thread

 

[TheBigIguana]

It’s not a case of occupation. More a case of backing up the government and army. The Taliban were under control, the illusion of an Afghan force backed up by western powers was enough to keep it that way. Once the provision of support was removed, the Taliban came out and the Afghan forces lost their backbone…..

It wasn't an illusion though. There were really forces in Afghanistan from the West.

 

[FrenchDarrenBent]

Oh just the fact that we take a knee, care about something that is political but not killing thousands, yet totally put aside the future killing of hundreds of thousands and the subjugation of women and young girls……

Yeah. Let's free the girls, gays, dissidents, artists... Let's invade China, Russia, Iran, Saoudi-Arabia, Pakistan, India, almost the entire African continent....
The John Bolton/Robert Kagan way of doing things has failed miserably again...
No more delivering democracy at gunpoint please... Or arming 'freedom Loving rebels' (Isis) or 'university students' (the Taliban)

My undoubtly too simplistic, non-militaristic, tree-hugging, commie view:
The World would be a better place if the entire western world would take human rights (and climate) more seriously. If we could only do business with countries that respect our standards and morals, even China would have to adapt if it doesnt want to lose it's biggest market.
In short: let's give those the treatment South Africa got under apartheid.

 

[peteblue]

It wasn't an illusion though. There were really forces in Afghanistan from the West.

Indeed, I meant the illusion of an effective Afghan army. The numbers of western forces had moved to low levels, but they were enough to ensure that ‘western support’ was in place….

 

[TheBigIguana]

Indeed, I meant the illusion of an effective Afghan army. The numbers of western forces had moved to low levels, but they were enough to ensure that ‘western support’ was in place….

So short of leaving those troops there indefinitely what can you do? At some point having foreign troops in a sovereign state becomes untenable and you have to turn it over to the government that is in place.

 

[PhilM]

You’re the one playing politics. I’m just calling you out on it and using your arguments against you. Which you clearly aren’t happy with as you keep calling me stupid.

The situation is an awful mess. Politically, in humanitarian terms. There is blame all over the place for this going back 20 years. The current situation was started by Trump, followed through with by Biden and our spineless mess of a government have gone along with it.

BLM and the lefties are the least of the issues here which is why I find it so weird you brought them into the conversation.

While not trying to defend Pete (far from it), this whole saga began to unravel far beyond Trump's reign; the buffoon was merely the catalyst for it accelerate.

Yet the Taliban were not under 'control' like Pete may suggest, with them cementing their support and training over the past five or so years.

This was fuelled by the ineptitude and corruption of the government and the two parties (ruling and opposition) making no real concessions for the greater good.

Without the western forces, the ANA and the police were a pile of sloppy mess with their own interests that often weren't conducive for a stable state.

 

[edge]

I remember when certain individuals took us into this and dismissed how difficult it would be and the eventual timescale for involvement. As you say, look at the history….

Should never have gone in , it was a minefield after the Russian invasion collapsed and we walked right into it.
Should have just sat back for a few years(possibly decades )
And let it settle down till there was a regime in place we could work with
To many interests at play , tribal, local power games, Russia, Pakistan, India ect to ever think we could stabilise the country.
The west has been to naive in dealing with the situation there and countless other countries, possibly only getting it right in the Balkans on any meaningful scale.
Need to drastically rethink are place in the world , it's a horrible place in large parts and we can do nothing about it in reality

 

[Wizard]

While not trying to defend Pete (far from it), this whole saga began to unravel far beyond Trump's reign; the buffoon was merely the catalyst for it accelerate.

Yet the Taliban were not under 'control' like Pete may suggest, with them cementing their support and training over the past five or so years.

This was fuelled by the ineptitude and corruption of the government and the two parties (ruling and opposition) making no real concessions for the greater good.

Without the western forces, the ANA and the police were a pile of sloppy mess with their own interests that often weren't conducive for a stable state.

I agree. I did mention the “current situation” though. It’s way more complex than just Trump and Biden of course. It’s a twenty year long war. No one person can be blamed for it

 

[Kurt.]

It‘s not a diversion. It’s just another example of how we in the west focus on certain issues but completely ignore the plight of a whole country. My (biased) views as you call them are aimed at the politicians such as Biden who love certain political issues yet have casually initiated what will be the greatest failing of the West to the detriment of millions….

Was is not Trump who ok’d the withdrawal ?

 

[peteblue]

So short of leaving those troops there indefinitely what can you do? At some point having foreign troops in a sovereign state becomes untenable and you have to turn it over to the government that is in place.

Of course, but that time had not been reached. Troops have to be stationed somewhere, overseas or at home, the USA had 2,500 in Afghanistan according to one of our posters, it has over 50,000 in Japan, over 25,000 in Korea, 35,000 in Germany and nearly 10,000 in the U.K. It has about 150,000- 200,000 stationed overseas in total. 2,500 is a drop in the ocean and was keeping both China and Russia out of Afghanistan….

 

[peteblue]

Was is not Trump who ok’d the withdrawal ?

Yes it was. But Biden overturned many of Trumps ambitions, but not this one, and Biden was responsible for its implementation. It’s the implementation that is a shambles…..

 

[LostLegend]

My reference to BLM was to show where our ‘priorities’ lie.

Some of the worst shoehorning I've seen on here and that's saying something.

davek levels even.

 

[peteblue]

Should never have gone in , it was a minefield after the Russian invasion collapsed and we walked right into it.
Should have just sat back for a few years(possibly decades )
And let it settle down till there was a regime in place we could work with
To many interests at play , tribal, local power games, Russia, Pakistan, India ect to ever think we could stabilise the country.
The west has been to naive in dealing with the situation there and countless other countries, possibly only getting it right in the Balkans on any meaningful scale.
Need to drastically rethink are place in the world , it's a horrible place in large parts and we can do nothing about it in reality

Indeed. The Chinese will simply recognise whoever comes out on top, sign them up for loans and infrastructure projects while raping whatever natural resources they can. The west has been stupid……