Current Affairs 2024 POTUS race

[davek]

In a swing state, if you abstain or vote 3rd party, it's a vote for Trump. And that would mean the end of Palestine and likely a far more deadly regional war.

There is no Palestine under Biden or any Democrats watch in any case.

WTF are you people holding on to here?

Take a look at those news reports of blown to pieces and twisted and torn human bodies as a result of Biden's bombs and then tell me you have a choice between good and evil in that November election.

This is the crime of the century so far. The Israeli apartheid state are massacring a whole people with your bombs supplied by your president.

 

[Ruairi77]

There is no Palestine under Biden or any Democrats watch in any case.

WTF are you people holding on to here?

Take a look at those news reports of blown to pieces and twisted and torn human bodies as a result of Biden's bombs and then tell me you have a choice between good and evil in that November election.

This is the crime of the century so far. The Israeli apartheid state are massacring a whole people with your bombs supplied by your president.

absolutely no one said it was a choice between good and evil re. Gaza
It's probably time to get down off that horse, it's a bit high.
Who you going to vote for on July 4. Sunaks party or Starmers party? Either way, they'll both sell arms that Israel will use to kill palestinians.
I'm guessing you'll vote Labour in the hope that their approach wont be as bad as the Tories.

 

[davek]

absolutely no one said it was a choice between good and evil re. Gaza
It's probably time to get down off that horse, it's a bit high.
Who you going to vote for on July 4. Sunaks party or Starmers party? Either way, they'll both sell arms that Israel will use to kill palestinians.
I'm guessing you'll vote Labour in the hope that their approach wont be as bad as the Tories.

Neither. I dont vote for Tory warmongers.

 

[Ruairi77]

Neither. I dont vote for Tory warmongers.

So what, you'll vote Lib Dem or Green. Bad news Dave, anyone you vote for in the UK, if they get in to government, will sell arms to Israel.
Or would you abstain from voting at all?

 

[Ruairi77]

Another hypothetical to try and explain this to you.
If it's a straight up head to head vote between Starmer and Sunak and you know Starmer will do less harm, who do you vote for?

 

[davek]

So what, you'll vote Lib Dem or Green. Bad news Dave, anyone you vote for in the UK, if they get in to government, will sell arms to Israel.
Or would you abstain from voting at all?

Maybe. Or spoil the paper.

And it'll be a legitimate thing to do.

 

[FrenchDarrenBent]

I think we should really debate the form of democracy the UK and the US have. It's a 19th century-system in a 21th century society.
The two-party system isn't doing democracy any favours in my opinion, and it takes the nuance out of every debate.
Both systems employ a first past the post system (there are differences of course) which disencourages voters in solid red or blue states. A proportionate parliament would represent our society better.
And a coalition-government would be more nuanced and less destructive (no Liz Truss-Kwasi Kwarteng).

And having a political appointed supreme court is also strange and quite unique... The supreme court should (to me) only be consulted on matters between states or between a state and the federal level (and certain discrimination issues).

 

[Martin Alvito]

There is no Palestine under Biden or any Democrats watch in any case.

WTF are you people holding on to here?

Take a look at those news reports of blown to pieces and twisted and torn human bodies as a result of Biden's bombs and then tell me you have a choice between good and evil in that November election.

This is the crime of the century so far. The Israeli apartheid state are massacring a whole people with your bombs supplied by your president.

Dave, Palestine is a non-issue in this election. You could slide a few sheets of paper between the parties' positions on the issue.

This election is a referendum on the rule of law, and whether elections should be free and fair.

That's pretty high up most US posters' lists, whether they're Democrats or Never Trumpers.

 

[verreauxi]

It's still mind boggling to me that Biden's handling of Gaza is a gamechanger for people when the other guy, by any objective measure, would be even more pro-Israel and anti-Muslim.

Make it make sense

Totally agree.

 

[Martin Alvito]

I think we should really debate the form of democracy the UK and the US have. It's a 19th century-system in a 21th century society.
The two-party system isn't doing democracy any favours in my opinion, and it takes the nuance out of every debate.
Both systems employ a first past the post system (there are differences of course) which disencourages voters in solid red or blue states. A proportionate parliament would represent our society better.
And a coalition-government would be more nuanced and less destructive (no Liz Truss-Kwasi Kwarteng).

And having a political appointed supreme court is also strange and quite unique... The supreme court should (to me) only be consulted on matters between states or between a state and the federal level (and certain discrimination issues).

There's a stack of research that concludes first-past-the-post sucks, both theoretical and empirical. Proportional representation has its own set of problems. Hybrid systems like multi-member districts have been shown to outperform either in most cases, when it comes to mapping voter preferences onto electoral outcomes.

One broader problem is that we took an agrarian system of representative government, welded an autocratic technocracy onto it to solve 20th Century problems, and gave the agrarian representative government oversight. It turns out this does not work well given the pace of change in this century. It moves too slowly.

 

[mahermi1]

Neither. I dont vote for Tory warmongers.

So what will that solve, will it make the war to away ? Because you have abstained Dave.

 

[Ruairi77]

I think we should really debate the form of democracy the UK and the US have. It's a 19th century-system in a 21th century society.
The two-party system isn't doing democracy any favours in my opinion, and it takes the nuance out of every debate.
Both systems employ a first past the post system (there are differences of course) which disencourages voters in solid red or blue states. A proportionate parliament would represent our society better.
And a coalition-government would be more nuanced and less destructive (no Liz Truss-Kwasi Kwarteng).

And having a political appointed supreme court is also strange and quite unique... The supreme court should (to me) only be consulted on matters between states or between a state and the federal level (and certain discrimination issues).

I think proportional representation or RCV here in the US are more democratic systems.
In the US, the Electoral College is undemocratic, the senate is undemocratic, the supreme court is undemocratic. About the closest thing to a democracy is the house but their jurisdictions are decided by the judges nominated by the president and appointed by the senate, neither of which are democratically elected.
I'm sick of people here telling me "we're a republic, not a representative democracy" like they're mutually exclusive.
What ever shred of democracy is still present in the system could be blown out of the water in November.

 

[davek]

So what will that solve, will it make the war to away ? Because you have abstained Dave.

No, but I want hand this process legitimacy by taking part in it.

Not in my name.

 

[FrenchDarrenBent]

There's a stack of research that concludes first-past-the-post sucks, both theoretical and empirical. Proportional representation has its own set of problems. Hybrid systems like multi-member districts have been shown to outperform either in most cases, when it comes to mapping voter preferences onto electoral outcomes.

One broader problem is that we took an agrarian system of representative government, welded an autocratic technocracy onto it to solve 20th Century problems, and gave the agrarian representative government oversight. It turns out this does not work well given the pace of change in this century. It moves too slowly.

I like proportional because it eliminates gerrymandering and makes every vote count.
I don't know what is 'better', but we should discuss reforming and changing. I don't think we've had that debate outside of academic circles.
It's all about which toilet a transgender can use.

I remember under Blair there were some discussions. But then some strategists at Labour said we'd never have a tory governement again...

 

[mahermi1]

No, but I want hand this process legitimacy by taking part in it.

Not in my name.

Again that serves no purpose, I'm hoping that Starmer will have more of a say in this atrocity when or if he gets in power. I do believe there is more chance of a Labour party intervention or stand in this than a Tory one. But what are we supposed to do when it's a war between two Countries ?