Current Affairs 2020 Democratic Primary

Go on then

  • Abrams

  • Biden

  • Bloomberg

  • Booker

  • Brown

  • Castro

  • de Blasio

  • Gabbard

  • Gillibrand

  • Harris

  • Hickenlooper

  • Holder

  • Kerry

  • Klobuchar

  • Moulton

  • O'Rourke

  • Sanders

  • Vegan Cheese on Toasted Artisanal Sourdough (Gluten Free)

  • Warren

  • Winfrey


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.
But not with some insipid elite centrist with nothing to say, like Buttigieg or worse still, Beto.
For someone who'd presumably never heard of Buttigieg a few months ago (he didn't make your poll) you're pretty quick to judge.
O'Rourke just vowed to stop taking fossil fuel money. Pretty bold step for a Texas congressman. Insipid elitism doesn't seem fair to me.
I know I'm constantly at you on this but the loyalty to Sanders while tearing through other candidates kinda baffles me.
 
For someone who'd presumably never heard of Buttigieg a few months ago (he didn't make your poll) you're pretty quick to judge.
O'Rourke just vowed to stop taking fossil fuel money. Pretty bold step for a Texas congressman. Insipid elitism doesn't seem fair to me.
I know I'm constantly at you on this but the loyalty to Sanders while tearing through other candidates kinda baffles me.

I had heard of him, but thought Buttigieg would be another Inslee or.... one of those dozen other ones whose names I've already forget.

**P.S. anyone wishing to vote Buttigieg in the poll should just click Beto, because they are basically different brands of the same product**

Buttigieg's rise is the product of a lifetime of contorting himself into what the 500 or so people who write political journalism in America think ordinary people want; an extremely aggressive attempt to flatter said political journalists; and the political media's concurrent boredom and need to fill a 24-hour news cycle while nothing of substance is happening.

Credit where it is due: it has worked wonders in the very short term.

And yet, no ordinary person knows who he is never mind likes him.

Now that Biden is the Great Lib Hope, I expect his 15 minutes are nearly up.

O'Rourke, meanwhile, has spend his entire career lying about who pays him. He made the same promise about oil donations while running for Senate, and, when his lie was revealed, refused to return the fossil fuel donations.

But he looks good on television, and repeats the word 'hope' four times per minute, so I'm sure it will be different this time :oops:

Anyhow, what baffles me about you is the fact that you claim to support Warren, and clearly spend a lot of time thinking about politics, but still don't seem to understand the function that Buttigieg, Biden, or O'Rourke are being paid to fulfill. Or how to read between the lines.

For example, Biden praising Cheney - what on earth did you expect? How can anybody, at this point, possibly not understand who, and what, Joe Biden actually is? He has been constant his entire career. It's not a gaffe. It's the genuine article. It's who is he is, and what he represents. It is his essence.

But for you, the trouble seems only to be that he's old.

Similarly, again, why do you actually support Warren? Is it because she's a nice lady? Is it because people on television keep signalling that she's smart? Or some sort of technical policy wizard (even though her widely-hailed student-debt relief is literally less than 2,500 words on medium)?

Or is it because you want to see the changes that she promises actually implemented? If so, if there is any substance behind your support, then how can you possibly not know that Joe Biden has done more than anyone else to prevent Warren's reforms from being implemented?

It was not an accident, or a regrettable error, on Biden's part. It is the performance of a service on which his entire career has been based. It is who he is, and what he is for.

Politics isn't a game. It isn't a soap opera. It isn't like rooting for Everton, or Best Actor at the Oscars.

Unlike every other candidate running, Warren and Sanders actually do intend to reshape the balance of political power, and to pursue meaningful change.

The people who hold this power, economically and politically, are desperate to stop this from happening. They are not your friends, and they are not your teammates (at least, if your support for Warren is anything more than superficial).

And their vehicles are Biden, O'Rourke, Buttigieg, Harris, Gillibrand, or whoever else emerges as the consensus establishment favourite against Sanders, or less plausibly, Warren.

There two types of candidates: those who will actually try to do something, and those who deliberately will not:

So why my loyalty to Sanders?

You won't believe me, but I am not a personality cultist.

I don't especially care if he is smart, or a nice man, or a Troop, or religious, or multilingual, or gay, or a good father, or attractive on camera, in the way that the television constantly reminds us that we should do.

I support him because of what he represents, and because I want to see the changes that he describes implemented. He is no more than a means to the end, not the end itself (which is the entire premise of political 'identities' like Beto or Buttigieg, where we're meant to believe that their inherent virtue or intelligence, and the happy feeling they give us, will in itself solve all our problems even if nothing has changed).

It certainly would be better if Sanders were a bit more 'diverse' and willing or able to perform 'wokeness', not because it actually matters (and in fact a small part of me died inside just writing that), but because it would make it more difficult for the people paid to preserve America's stupefyingly corrupt status quo to discredit him.

Sanders knows this as well as anyone, and if there was anyone else representing his vision, he would not have run.

But there isn't, so he is.

As I've repeated ad nauseum, I'd be very pleased if Warren became President, though it won't happen because she doesn't have the mass movement Sanders does - and, as the Jacobin piece astutely points out, she also doesn't understand why she needs it, or what she is up against.

That said, I do think that if she'd had the courage of her convictions to take on the Clintons in 2016, she, and not Sanders, would be the emblem of contemporary left-wing politics. She was in a vastly stronger position than he was in 2014-15. His success was as surprising to him as it was to anyone, and he would not have contested Clinton if Warren had done so first.

And on that note, if you actually understand how transformative, and how threatening to comfortable interests her agenda would be, and still want it to happen, then the fact that she was scared off by the likes of Hillary Clinton - probably the worst candidate for any party in 30 years - should at the very least give you pause about her suitability as an agent of change.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I had heard of him, but thought Buttigieg would be another Inslee or.... one of those dozen other ones whose names I've already forget.
Well fair dues, I certainty didn't know who the mayor of South Bend was till he declared. I'm prepared to give him more than a few months to assess how good a candidate he is
Anyhow, what baffles me about you is the fact that you claim to support Warren, and clearly spend a lot of time thinking about politics, but still don't seem to understand the function that Buttigieg, Biden, or O'Rourke are being paid to fulfill. Or how to read between the lines.
that's pretty patronizing, I'm comfortable enough with my knowledge of US politics and my ability to assess what's happening.
For example, Biden praising Cheney - what on earth did you expect?
I expected him not to admit it on an open stage.
But for you, the trouble seems only to be that he's old.
You'll find I said 'age, among other things' was a concern.
Similarly, again, why do you actually support Warren? Is it because she's a nice lady? Is it because people on television keep signalling that she's smart? Or some sort of technical policy wizard (even though her widely-hailed student-debt relief is literally less than 2,500 words on medium)?
I've lived in the Cambridge/somerville area for 11 years and she has been a constant leader in civic issues, even when in the private sector. She doesn't change her core beliefs. Yes, she comes across as elitist but she's not in person, I campaigned for her in her first senate race against Scott Brown and was impressed with how she dealt with a right wing populist. Basically, I think she has a lot of experience in different areas and she genuinely cares. And yes, she's a nice lady.


Or is it because you want to see the changes that she promises actually implemented? If so, if there is any substance behind your support, then how can you possibly not know that Joe Biden has done more than anyone else to prevent Warren's reforms from being implemented?
At what point did I say I want Biden to win. You're confusing what I want and what I think will happen.

And their vehicles are Biden, O'Rourke, Buttigieg, Harris, Gillibrand, or whoever else emerges as the consensus establishment favourite against Sanders, or less plausibly, Warren.
You're not seeing what's happening to Sanders support on the ground. It's drying up and I'm in New England. Sorry.

I support him because of what he represents, and because I want to see the changes that he describes implemented. He is no more than a means to the end, not the end itself (which is the entire premise of political 'identities' like Beto or Buttigieg, where we're meant to believe that their inherent virtue or intelligence, and the happy feeling they give us, will in itself solve all our problems even if nothing has changed).

It certainly would be better if Sanders were a bit more 'diverse' and willing or able to perform 'wokeness', not because it actually matters (and in fact a small part of me died inside just writing that), but because it would make it more difficult for the people paid to preserve America's stupefyingly corrupt status quo to discredit him.

Sanders knows this as well as anyone, and if there was anyone else representing his vision, he would not have run.

But there isn't, so he is.
All very noble but lots of candidates are running on ideas that he made mainstream. It's high time the likes of he and Biden step aside and act in an advisory capacity.

And on that note, if you actually understand how transformative, and how threatening to comfortable interests her agenda would be, and still want it to happen, then the fact that she was scared off by the likes of Hillary Clinton - probably the worst candidate for any party in 30 years - should at the very least give you pause about her suitability as an agent of change.
Enough with the patronizing tone.
I believe Warren, like everyone else, presumed Clinton would beat trump and made a calculated decision to be part of Clinton's government. This is how she could best pursue her goals and would set her up well for a 2020 run. Things change and Trump is POTUS so Warren had to take a different tack.

A lot of this is opinion, opinion based on the facts we observe, so for the moment, when it comes to the 2020 primary, there are no hard facts. So if you disagree with me, fine, but please cut out the digs at my intellect. It makes an otherwise interesting conversation tedious.
 
Well fair dues, I certainty didn't know who the mayor of South Bend was till he declared. I'm prepared to give him more than a few months to assess how good a candidate he is

that's pretty patronizing, I'm comfortable enough with my knowledge of US politics and my ability to assess what's happening.

I expected him not to admit it on an open stage.

You'll find I said 'age, among other things' was a concern.

I've lived in the Cambridge/somerville area for 11 years and she has been a constant leader in civic issues, even when in the private sector. She doesn't change her core beliefs. Yes, she comes across as elitist but she's not in person, I campaigned for her in her first senate race against Scott Brown and was impressed with how she dealt with a right wing populist. Basically, I think she has a lot of experience in different areas and she genuinely cares. And yes, she's a nice lady.



At what point did I say I want Biden to win. You're confusing what I want and what I think will happen.


You're not seeing what's happening to Sanders support on the ground. It's drying up and I'm in New England. Sorry.


All very noble but lots of candidates are running on ideas that he made mainstream. It's high time the likes of he and Biden step aside and act in an advisory capacity.


Enough with the patronizing tone.
I believe Warren, like everyone else, presumed Clinton would beat trump and made a calculated decision to be part of Clinton's government. This is how she could best pursue her goals and would set her up well for a 2020 run. Things change and Trump is POTUS so Warren had to take a different tack.

A lot of this is opinion, opinion based on the facts we observe, so for the moment, when it comes to the 2020 primary, there are no hard facts. So if you disagree with me, fine, but please cut out the digs at my intellect. It makes an otherwise interesting conversation tedious.
I haven't made anything digs at your intellect. I think you're wrong (and you think I'm wrong), but that isn't the same thing.
 

Biden wouldn’t necessarily be my first choice as President, but if those NCW numbers are correct, he’d pretty much crush Trump.
 
He will certainly need to do better than ^that^. But the campaign is well aware of this, and has been improving outreach with African-Americans for years now.

You're right, it is still too early for much of this, and if we look, we can all find data to support our narratives:

Bernie Sanders Is the Most Popular 2020 Candidate Among Hispanic Voters, New Polling Finds

Bernie Sanders Is Beating Kamala Harris 2-1 Among Black Democratic Primary Voters, New Poll Finds
Might need to work on the outreach a tad more lol
 
So weird the way Bernie supporters are constantly going on about "the establishment" trying to tear him down, and yet all that pretty much every Bernie supporter I've seen does is spend their time tearing down every other candidate in the race.

It's an odd dichotomy
 
So weird the way Bernie supporters are constantly going on about "the establishment" trying to tear him down, and yet all that pretty much every Bernie supporter I've seen does is spend their time tearing down every other candidate in the race.

It's an odd dichotomy
Yep. That to me has always been odd. He could have run as an independent and still if he didnt like the party and as you said establishment. He needs them.

he needs their votes and cant run mainstream as an independent.

Needs to be careful not to discourage left supporters like he did the last time. Yes i know the party "fixed" it but can you blame them if he was bad mouthing them all of the time

His supporters remind me of vegans.
 
Yep. That to me has always been odd. He could have run as an independent and still if he didnt like the party and as you said establishment. He needs them.

he needs their votes and cant run mainstream as an independent.

Needs to be careful not to discourage left supporters like he did the last time. Yes i know the party "fixed" it but can you blame them if he was bad mouthing them all of the time

His supporters remind me of vegans.

Steve, you're a nice lad, and I'm sure you mean well - so please try to be a bit more discerning about the rubbish that you read and recite here.

We can all disagree, but let's at least still attempt a vaguely reality-based conversation.

Sanders' continued allegiance to the Democratic Party is the only reason why it remains a viable political institution.

If he left and ran as an independent, you boys would never remotely sniff power again.

He is doing the Party a tremendous favour by still enduring its nonsense.

And as for 'badmouthing' the Party: during the 2016 Primary, he famously refrained from personal attacks, save those of relevance to policy, like Hillary's Goldman Sachs performances.

During the debate, he famously refused to discuss her almost-certainly illegal destruction of thousands of emails of public interest - a perfectly legitimate issue to raise, and one for which she was, accordingly, completely ill-prepared for during the general election.

And, after the DNC tipped the scales so blatantly in Hillary's favour that the chair was in effect fired for it, he nonetheless campaigned tirelessly for her (far more effectively than she herself could manage) without so much as a peep in protest.

Now, if you have a substantive critique that you'd like to share, in the manner that @LinekersLegs sometimes provides, then by all means - fire away.

But please, think it over before regurgitating nonsense like that.

You can do better.
 
So weird the way Bernie supporters are constantly going on about "the establishment" trying to tear him down, and yet all that pretty much every Bernie supporter I've seen does is spend their time tearing down every other candidate in the race.

It's an odd dichotomy

Reality-based view of the Democratic Party v. Kopite-based view of the Democratic Party.

And since this is no doubt directed at me, I have most certainly not torn down every other candidate in the race.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top