Current Affairs 2017 General Election

[orchard]

So, are the Tories pumping an additional £1.5m of British taxpayers money into Northern Ireland just to get this deal over the line?

Billion. To a group of mp's enmeshed in fraud accusations. As a temporary fix. Couldn't make it up.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

The question of a second referendum was raised by Mr Farage in an interview with the Mirror in which he said: "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681

I'm not advocating a 2nd referendum btw, all I'm saying is that the idea that if one was called and the result reversed the original decision, that would somehow be 'grossly undemocratic' is absolute cobblers.

Why do you quote Nigel Farrage as though he is the only voice of Brexit? I didn't vote out based on anything he said and I couldnt care less about his opinions. Since when did Farrage become the measuring stick of what is right and wrong anyway? Your giving him more respect then i would if you think his opinion is worth listening to. A second referendum is grossly undemocratic (im going keep using that description now) one way or the other. Had Remain won and Farrage said he wanted a second referendum I'd be just as angry. It's wrong to ignore the results of the referendum. This has nothing to do with in or out anymore, it's gone beyond that. It's a question of if you respect democracy and bealieve it should be upheld now.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Why do you quote Nigel Farrage as though he is the only voice of Brexit? I didn't vote out based on anything he said and I couldnt care less about his opinions. Since when did Farrage become the measuring stick of what is right and wrong anyway? Your giving him more respect then i would if you think his opinion is worth listening to. A second referendum is grossly undemocratic (im going keep using that description now) one way or the other. Had Remain won and Farrage said he wanted a second referendum I'd be just as angry. It's wrong to ignore the results of the referendum. This has nothing to do with in or out anymore, it's gone beyond that. It's a question of if you respect democracy and bealieve it should be upheld now.

I quoted Farage as he was a leading voice in the Brexit campaign, and has also spouted the same nads about a second referendum being undemocratic, despite him making the quote that I posted.

If the exit deal went to a referendum (which could happen, as you yourself concluded) then what would the question be? And wouldn't it be a 2nd referendum on our EU status by default?

 

[rascal]

I disagree with the idea of a second referendum, It sets a very dangerous precedent and would be an outright assault on democracy. If we made the wrong call we made the wrong call, nobody is pretending that democracy is perfect and can't fail but it still shouldn't be tampered with. I'm open to the idea of a referendum on what type of Brexit we have and I always have been but the original referendum of june 2016 simply cannot be ignored. To do so would do far more long-term damage to this country then Brexit ever could. Brexit is Pandora's box and if it's opened it begs the question of why should our politcal masters ever listen to us again? Why should elections or the will of the people matter, if the people make the "wrong decision". Perhaps I'm over the top but I'd really fear for the future of this nation if politicians felt it was ok to ignore a legitimate vote and a democratic mandate because by doing so they are stealing our rights to vote freely. Make no mistake about this, there are a lot of MP's who would be happy to ignore the people entirely and not even give us the vote at all. We give them this opportunity, we will live to regret it.

By offering a second referendum to the people the people are still having a say in the destination of the country. I'm angry that my vote was made under false pretences, and in a fair and democratic world the people would be given the chance to put it right.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

I quoted Farage as he was a leading voice in the Brexit campaign, and has also spouted the same nads about a second referendum being undemocratic, despite him making the quote that I posted.

If the exit deal went to a referendum (which could happen, as you yourself concluded) then what would the question be? And wouldn't it be a 2nd referendum on our EU status by default?

No, if any type of second referendum were to take place it would have to be on all party's or groups putting forward proposals for their visions for how we exit. We've voted out and we should definitely stick to that and respect that vote, it's just a question on what type of Brexit. A remain in option should be off the table as that would be a direct slap to the face of the previous decision.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

By offering a second referendum to the people the people are still having a say in the destination of the country. I'm angry that my vote was made under false pretences, and in an ideal world the people would be given the chance to put it right.

As I said above mate, I'm all for another referendum about how we exit but remaining should be off the table. We've voted out and that needs to be respected. I see no reason why we can't have another referendum on what type of Brexit we have though.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

No, if any type of second referendum were to take place it would have to be on all party's or groups putting forward proposals for their visions for how we exit. We've voted out and we should definitely stick to that and respect that vote, it's just a question on what type of Brexit. A remain in option should be off the table as that would be a direct slap to the face of the previous decision.

How we exit isn't solely our choice though, any second referendum would have to be on the final deal that the Govt came back with, and whether we found it acceptable or not. If the answer was No, then what?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

By offering a second referendum to the people the people are still having a say in the destination of the country. I'm angry that my vote was made under false pretences, and in a fair and democratic world the people would be given the chance to put it right.

To argue that a second vote would be somehow undemocratic, is just Leavers terrified that the country would change it's mind.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

How we exit isn't solely our choice though, any second referendum would have to be on the final deal that the Govt came back with, and whether we found it acceptable or not. If the answer was No, then what?

Then the government either exit without a deal or go back and get another deal, I don't think a simple yes or no referendum is the best way to go this time (I don't think it will happen anyway, truth be told). We need a referendum with several different options from all party's laying out their vision of Brexit and the government is bound to comply with the decision whatever it may be. I stand by my point, no remain option on the table, just different options on how we leave and the deals we'd have to make ect.

 

[Groucho]

If the DUP managed to get £1bn from their talks, EU negotiations will not go our way.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

To argue that a second vote would be somehow undemocratic, is just Leavers terrified that the country would change it's mind.

Or it's remainers stamping their feet in rage that they lost and what another go like children. I've alredy said I would be just as angry with leave suggesting a second referendum had they lost because I think that would be just as wrong. The only thing I'm terrified of is my right to vote in free and democratic elctions/referendums and having that vote respected and upheld.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Then the government either exit without a deal or go back and get another deal, I don't think a simple yes or no referendum is the best way to go this time (I don't think it will happen anyway, truth be told). We need a referendum with several different options from all party's laying out their vision of Brexit and the government is bound to comply with the decision whatever it may be. I stand by my point, no remain option on the table, just different options on how we leave and the deals we'd have to make ect.

That makes no sense whatsoever. As the Lib Dems for example, could say they wanted to remain in the single market and the customs union, the populous could back that view, but the EU could tell us to get stuffed.

 

[rascal]

Had the government looked at the closeness of the result and said 'given the closeness of the result, we will pursue a soft Brexit' then I'd have no complaints. Neither I suspect would most people.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

That makes no sense whatsoever. As the Lib Dems for example, could say they wanted to remain in the single market and the customs union, the populous could back that view, but the EU could tell us to get stuffed.

They have practical workable options mate. I'd of thought that was perfectly obvious.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Or it's remainers stamping their feet in rage that they lost and what another go like children. I've alredy said I would be just as angry with leave suggesting a second referendum had they lost because of think that was just as wrong. The only thing I'm terrified of is my right to vote in free and democratic elctions/referendums and having that vote respected and upheld.

Your view on what constitutes democracy is completely skewed pal.

The view of the populous changes over time, to suggest that a vote taken last year should be the definitive view forever, even if there was an obvious change in the view of the populous, is absolute rot.