Current Affairs 2017 General Election

[Clint Planet]

Haha - I've been accused of being a Burnley-supporting S*n reader today for having a 'Labour without Corbyn' view today. Superb.

So, I'm guessing you're Blairite Labour. Are you voting Tory then?

 

[evilwebby]

Don't think there's ever been such a one-sided contest in my lifetime..

The Betfair markets currently have:

Con: 1.06
Lab: 19
LD: 85

Only question seems to be the size of the majority and the political fallout for the opposition.

FWIW I think this election will come down to what elections always come down to, and that the gaps in the polls will narrow in the run up to election day. Lab will get drubbed, but I dont think it will be on a 1983-type scale.

 

[orly]

So, I'm guessing you're Blairite Labour. Are you voting Tory then?

No, I certainly am not. In the same way I've never read or purchased the S*n either.

I - like @Eggs , like many others - am a completely disillusioned Labour supporter who is completely disenchanted with the current direction of travel. I don't want a return to the Blairite lot (you wouldn't get me voting for Burnham let's put it that way) but Corbyn just isn't the solution - mainly due to the hangers-on he surrounds himself with (to echo @edge here).

I'm looking for a third way... oh no wait a minute...

 

[roydo]

Clint didn't say vote against, he said refused to serve.

Doesnt it equate to the same thing though?

Like, in politics.

Demand loyalty as the democratic leader, but constantly vote against another elected leader?

Kind of puts folk off.

 

[orly]

Clint didn't say vote against, he said refused to serve.

Half of the most prominent in the PLP - Cooper, Umunna etc - refused to serve under Corbyn at all and most of the rest (Benn and his ilk) quit after the coup following EU referendum, in which they slated Corbyn for not taking an active role but in which none of them appeared more than fifteen times in six weeks.

That leaves him with not much option than to pick people who are loyal, or who are honest, and who have at least some recognition. McDonnell has been effective as Shadow Chancellor, Abbott less so, Starmer is probably the pick of the current Shadow Cabinet though he has had the easiest job given that the Government response to Brexit has been such a massive shambles.

Do you think Kier Starmer would keep McDonnell / Abbott?

If not - viable alternative I would suggest.

 

[tsubaki]

Do you think Kier Starmer would keep McDonnell / Abbott?

If not - viable alternative I would suggest.

Not Abbott, but probably McDonnell - though whether in that job (he would probably put Cooper as Shadow Chancellor) is another matter.

 

[Clint Planet]

Well yeah, but Clint was slamming Labour MPs for doing what Corbyn has done for ages.

Cant have it both ways.

Or maybe you can.

Corbyn's parliamentary voting over the years, I think it can be universally agreed, has been guided by his commitment to traditional Leftist values of fairness, compassion and a revulsion of opportunist international conflict and exploitation. Go and find things he voted for that you disagree with. It is the Labour Party that was wrenched away from his position, not the other way around. To cast him as the villain is somewhat Stalinist when you really consider it with an open mind.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Didnt Corbyn vote against various democratically elected leaders of the Labour Party like 200 times?

Goose and Gander.

'Democratically voted against'. Is very pertinent. He did not scream and shout and whinge and court the press to breif against his leaders. Corbyn as a MP went about his parliamentary business in an appropriate manner.

 

[orly]

Not Abbott, but probably McDonnell - though whether in that job (he would probably put Cooper as Shadow Chancellor) is another matter.

But you see this is what I've been on about all day - there are alternatives. A knight of the realm with a solid track record of public service; that's a good alternative to the current malaise.

Less of the Abbotts and Thornberrys, more of the Starmers and (arguably) Coopers.

 

[Clint Planet]

mainly due to the hangers-on he surrounds himself with (to echo @edge here).

In which case, I suggest you direct your ire at Yvette Cooper, Chuka Ummuna, Liz Kendall et al....

 

[evilwebby]

No, I certainly am not. In the same way I've never read or purchased the S*n either.

I - like @Eggs , like many others - am a completely disillusioned Labour supporter who is completely disenchanted with the current direction of travel. I don't want a return to the Blairite lot (you wouldn't get me voting for Burnham let's put it that way) but Corbyn just isn't the solution - mainly due to the hangers-on he surrounds himself with (to echo @edge here).

I'm looking for a third way... oh no wait a minute...

Serious question.. who would you identify with, then? I personally have a lot of time for Kinnock. The Labour party needs a modern day version of him imo.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

I suppose the good thing about this GE is that all those leave voters who supposedly say given the chance again they would vote to stay, and those leave voters who didn't vote to leave the single market etc, they now have the chance to air their grievances with the good old 'protest vote' and vote Lib Dems.

 

[tsubaki]

Doesnt it equate to the same thing though?

Like, in politics.

Demand loyalty as the democratic leader, but constantly vote against another elected leader?

Kind of puts folk off.

Not really. No Labour leader after Foot would have offered Corbyn a post anyway, but I am sure that if they had he would have accepted it. One also has to look at what he actually voted against, which in many cases (Iraq especially, but also over quite a lot of anti-terror legislation) are things that you can at least understand, or see that he was proved right on.

 

[Clint Planet]

Doesnt it equate to the same thing though?

Like, in politics.

Demand loyalty as the democratic leader, but constantly vote against another elected leader?

Kind of puts folk off.

No, there is a difference.

 

[orly]

In which case, I suggest you direct your ire at Yvette Cooper, Chuka Ummuna, Liz Kendall et al....

Chuka Ummuna could never, ever lead the Labour Party. He was actively involved in the shuttering of small businesses against their interest and taking the consultancy fees for their administration.

Ire, disappointment, frustration.