ARTETA. And lack of finance
- Status
marty mcfly
Player Valuation: £40m
This thread would indicate that we are finally moving on and hopefully the comparisons will now end. Moyes did a great job for us and the "People's Club" image and branding served us well as we looked to stabilize. On reflection I don't think that we outgrew him but rather the money from the new TV deal came a little too late. I personally would love to know what Moyes would have done with the increase in budget.
I still think we have the better manager now because Moyes was too defensive which his results in Spain are highlighting. Under Martinez at his best like the game against Sunderland when we pinned teams them into their final 3rd with a man less was some of the best football I've ever seen us play even including the 80s and the signs are there that we are getting back to that.
I still think we have the better manager now because Moyes was too defensive which his results in Spain are highlighting. Under Martinez at his best like the game against Sunderland when we pinned teams them into their final 3rd with a man less was some of the best football I've ever seen us play even including the 80s and the signs are there that we are getting back to that.
I think he stabilised the club at a time when we needed stability. Probably overstayed his welcome a little bit, but I thought we played some very nice football at times during his last season here
I think him leaving was very important for Barkley and Stones, as I don't think either would have got the chances they have had under Martinez
Ross would have been sold if Moyes had stayed I think. He certainly wouldn't have enjoyed the chances he's enjoyed under Martinez
But yeah, Moyes was what we needed at a certain time, but I think that time is now over
I think him leaving was very important for Barkley and Stones, as I don't think either would have got the chances they have had under Martinez
Ross would have been sold if Moyes had stayed I think. He certainly wouldn't have enjoyed the chances he's enjoyed under Martinez
But yeah, Moyes was what we needed at a certain time, but I think that time is now over
Last edited:
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
5 years should have been his maximum tenure. Just enough time to steady the ship by making us defensively responsible again, but not enough time for him to impose his culture of football on us. Unfortunately he stayed 11 years and the legacy is evident in a generation of supporters that's come through who cant understand that the game can be played in a different manner than just being solid. Martinez is having to drag this club kicking and screaming back to its traditions because of it. People say he inherited a very good squad off Moyes. Maybe, maybe not. But he also inherited a massive headache in the shape of the need to redesign Everton with a style of play equipped for football in the 21st century - a massive task and one that he's going to have to keep working on.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Lack of finance doesn't impose restrictions on progressive ideas on how to play football.
Boss_Blue
I will find you and consensually bum you
I agree mate - we compromised on ambition to gain stability and then waited too long to remove the shackles (partly due to the fear of removing our safety blanket, which is what Moyes had become).
Donald Twain
Vide cor meum
11 years and won nothing , that takes some doing. I try and stay out of Moyes threads as he's a complete bstard and is partly responsible along with the board for the whole mindset of the club being losers. See ya.
So your telling me ,you along with every other person in the ground couldnt see them doubling up on Hibbert from the first ten minutes, what did he do about it?
The answer was nothing ,
Just because Chelsea were a good team dosnt mean they were bound to win,look at wigan and a loads of others that have done it agaist so called better teams.
simple fact is he hasnt won a thing anywhere , won on pens agaist Man Unt Reserves and thats it in big games.,unless he goes to scotland or some league like that he never will.
When someone manages a football club for over 10 years, it's very rare that you'll be able to conclude a 100% agreeable narrative
That's a lot of time to do many things people like and also do many things people dislike
When you look at Moyes entire tenure, it's a definate mixed bag
Some good bits and some bad bits
Overall though, I think he did more good for us than harm. Considering how bad things COULD have been during the 00's for us, the outcome we go from Moyes looks much better in hindsight.
No one's mentioned the Cup Final or the numerous Semi Finals yet. He was 1 or 2 games away from becoming a bonafide hero. Thus are the margins in football
That's a lot of time to do many things people like and also do many things people dislike
When you look at Moyes entire tenure, it's a definate mixed bag
Some good bits and some bad bits
Overall though, I think he did more good for us than harm. Considering how bad things COULD have been during the 00's for us, the outcome we go from Moyes looks much better in hindsight.
No one's mentioned the Cup Final or the numerous Semi Finals yet. He was 1 or 2 games away from becoming a bonafide hero. Thus are the margins in football
toffeeblue9
Player Valuation: £35m
I loved Moyes when he was here, but the benefit of hindsight allows me to be more even-handed these days.
Most people wouldn't dispute that he was exactly what we needed at the time he came in. We were full of overpaid crap players, most of whom were the wrong side of 30 and we were sliding towards relegation - it would have happened eventually, whether it was that season or in the next couple.
Moyes provided stability, made sensible buys and provided a good framework for someone else to build on.
He had his faults - an inherent negativity, tactical pragmatism and a defeatist attitude being chief amongst them, but he certainly did more good than harm. He outstayed his welcome though (something I'd have argued against at the time). The style of football could be boring (although he had periods, inspired by Baines, Pienaar, Osman and Arteta, where we played some lovely stuff, in fairness) and the "knife to a gun fight"-type comments only served to dampen expectation levels of our fanbase - maybe this was deliberate, maybe this was just his mentality, I don't know. What I do know is that Everton were in an infinitely better place when he left than we were when he came here. He deserves credit for that, especially since he was rarely ever afforded the luxury of spending big and had to endure a number of transfer windows where simply couldn't afford to buy anyone.
Had a good eye for a player, even if it seemed he was sometimes dithering over things.
We were ready for a change though (and in hindsight were maybe 3 years before) and we were ready for a manager like Martinez who has less inhibitions than Moyes and an infinitely more positive outlook.
What I find difficult to forgive is that he simply belittled us and was incredibly disrespectful in his comments about the club who employed him for 11 years when he got to Man Utd. He'll disagree, I'm sure, but he must realise that he would never have got those hostile receptions at Old Trafford and Goodison when he was at Utd if it weren't for his comments during that Baines/Fellaini transfer saga.
"Everton fans see a direction that their team is going in but they need to remember I signed a lot of them"
"But to be fair to him Roberto is doing a really good job keeping things going at Everton"
"I told Roberto that I left such an organised team behind that they could play without a manager and still win"
I'd like to think in time we'll all be able to forgive the negative stuff, as we seem to have done with Rooney.
Most people wouldn't dispute that he was exactly what we needed at the time he came in. We were full of overpaid crap players, most of whom were the wrong side of 30 and we were sliding towards relegation - it would have happened eventually, whether it was that season or in the next couple.
Moyes provided stability, made sensible buys and provided a good framework for someone else to build on.
He had his faults - an inherent negativity, tactical pragmatism and a defeatist attitude being chief amongst them, but he certainly did more good than harm. He outstayed his welcome though (something I'd have argued against at the time). The style of football could be boring (although he had periods, inspired by Baines, Pienaar, Osman and Arteta, where we played some lovely stuff, in fairness) and the "knife to a gun fight"-type comments only served to dampen expectation levels of our fanbase - maybe this was deliberate, maybe this was just his mentality, I don't know. What I do know is that Everton were in an infinitely better place when he left than we were when he came here. He deserves credit for that, especially since he was rarely ever afforded the luxury of spending big and had to endure a number of transfer windows where simply couldn't afford to buy anyone.
Had a good eye for a player, even if it seemed he was sometimes dithering over things.
We were ready for a change though (and in hindsight were maybe 3 years before) and we were ready for a manager like Martinez who has less inhibitions than Moyes and an infinitely more positive outlook.
What I find difficult to forgive is that he simply belittled us and was incredibly disrespectful in his comments about the club who employed him for 11 years when he got to Man Utd. He'll disagree, I'm sure, but he must realise that he would never have got those hostile receptions at Old Trafford and Goodison when he was at Utd if it weren't for his comments during that Baines/Fellaini transfer saga.
"Everton fans see a direction that their team is going in but they need to remember I signed a lot of them"
"But to be fair to him Roberto is doing a really good job keeping things going at Everton"
"I told Roberto that I left such an organised team behind that they could play without a manager and still win"
I'd like to think in time we'll all be able to forgive the negative stuff, as we seem to have done with Rooney.
bluemangroup
Player Valuation: £70m
It appears that those who always have their say on the matter are making sure they get their message across again. Great.
Boss_Blue
I will find you and consensually bum you
I think the stability he built is still a big factor and the team spirit. Also the work he put into re-establishing and strengthening the academy.
We now have a manager who I think will maximise the structures he put into place, which was his weakness.
We now have a manager who I think will maximise the structures he put into place, which was his weakness.
Saint Domingo
Player Valuation: £90m
Pure fantasy. Osman Arteta Baines Pienaar Lescott Yakubu Cahill all had some great interplay when they were at the club. Over 11 years there'll be some bad football and some good football it wasn't free flowing all the time but to just say it was all dire is absolutely ridiculous.
Martinez served up the biggest pile of dirge I've ever seen last season, some of the worst in the league. We panicked about with it at the back before Howard would just launch it anyway. Three defensive mids, strikers on the wings, slow turgid passing followed by a goalkeeper punt, it was brutal.
The football in his first season though (and so far this season) has been good. So it seems all managers are capable of serving up some bad stuff.
In the early days Moyes had some poor players. Thinking they could play an attractive brand of football and win enough games to get to Europe is the same sort of stupidity that Martinez showed last season thinking that Etoo and Naismith out wide could do the same job as Pienaar and Osman.
Moyes was a pragmatist. When he had his good players fit we played good football. When he didn't, he didn't ask Neville Rodwell and Heitinga to play the same way as Arteta Pienaar and Osman so it would be more direct to give us a chance of a result.
I hope all our players stay fit and in form this season and we go one better than 13/14 and play great football on the way to the top 4. If we start getting injuries though, or lose confidence/form, will Martinez be able to adapt to avoid what happened last season (when he basically just ignored all the problems and waited for his players to get fit again) or will he put his head in the sand again? We will see.
orly
Please check with me for Blammo criteria
And the Chelsea team we ran into that day was the greatest iteration of their Abramovich period.
That said, Hibbo / Osman right side that day
- Status
