Why do Evertonians expect success?

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EFC78 said:
I will probably get slated for this but something that has really struck me lately is how much a lot of Evertonians are self pitiers who expect success when we have no divine right to get it. It's becoming a trait that is very similar to the Kopites in my opinion.

Yesterday was an absolute disgrace from the players and Moyes but does anyone seriously believe we would have gone on to win the FA Cup? If we had gone through we would have been humiliated by United or City anyway. Both those clubs have spent hundreds of millions of pounds and we just can't compete. Just like we're falling away in the league now. The reason being is that the squad isn't big enough and our players aren't quite as good as we all think they are. We have a few players who are liabilities now, the likes of Neville, Naismith (on the right) and Heitinga, the latter who has been an absolute disgrace this season.

I'm a younger Evertonian who is just about old enough to have seen us win the FA Cup in 95. So to the older Evertonians, posts like these are probably hard to read after some of the triumphs those fans will have seen. I view our club as one of the historical and great clubs in the country but when arguing with fans of other clubs, we just aren't seen as any bigger or better than the likes of Newcastle, Spurs or Villa. We've won more than Spurs in our history but what have we done that's better than them recently? Spurs have just beaten Inter Milan 3-0 at home, something we won't be seeing for a while, if ever again.

It all comes down to money for me and we will never break into the top 4 without any real investment. Moyes has turned us around from relegation candidates to steady top 8 finishers but without spending 20-30m each season to add in a couple more players to the very good first 11 we have, we just won't push on. Nearly every other club around us has that luxury which is why Spurs are constantly breaking into the top 4 and going on European runs and we finish 7th or 8th and crash out of the cup each season.

Having said all that, my main point is that just because we're Everton FC who have done all we have in English Football, why do we have some sort of right to go and win anything? We haven't won a trophy for 18 years because we haven't been/and aren't good enough to win one. With the huge gap in spending between us and the likes of Chelsea, Man United and Man City, how are we supposed to compete? Another thing is that we all cry about how hard we have it. We're still 6th in the league. We have it a lot better than smaller clubs like Stoke and Reading and the clubs that are similar in stature to us like Villa, are going through absolute turmoil at their club. How many quarter/semi finals have Villa or Newcastle etc been in in recent years? How many times have Villa got to go away to Nuremburg, Lisbon etc (yes we got humiliated there too :lol: but at least we got to go).

We need to carry on getting behind the team (like we have done excellently all season by the way - home crowds have been good and away numbers have been unbelievable) and realise that where we are at the moment is realistic for the resources we have got. It could be alot better obviously, but it could also be a lot worse.
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I don't expect success, but we keep blowing golden chances year after year after year. Getting hammered at home by a bottom 3 team with the worst defensive record in the country, when a day out at Wembley was there for the taking, on a plate for us, is just not good enough.

This is different than the usual 'we don't have the resources' stuff, which I usually agree wholeheartedly with. This was a terrible defeat, blowing a golden opportunity, the cause of which is rooted in complacency and uncertainty, stemming right from the top - Moyes, and filtering down to the players - Fellaini.

It should be an honour to manage our club. Yet some people want to 'wait and see'. That's not good enough - football clubs need to plan for the future. That's why contracts exist. That's why most club tie down the best players for many years at a time, and do not allow key players to run down their deals if they can help it. The same should apply to the manager.

It should be an honour to play for our club, one of the most honoured clubs in the history of football in this country. The least we should be able to expect when paying someone £70k a week is to not publicly flirt with richer rivals. Say nothing, keep your mouth shut, play well on the park and keep your head down, and if you want to leave, keep it in house.
 

Tubey said:
Can't really put into words how shocking this post is.

We don't "expect success", we just don't expect abject failure.

We're not asking to win three league titles on the trot or anything like it's our birthright, but we're expecting to at least be in the mix regularly for domestic trophies if nothing else.

It's amazing how expectations have actually lowered thanks to David Moyes and his "plucky underdogs" tag he gives us constantly, with the "knife to a gunfight" crap.
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How is it a shocking post? Fair enough if people don't agree with my opinion but I would hardly call it a shocking post.

I think people over-rate our team as well. The last time we battered a team was Swansea away. Since then we have rarely beaten a side in the league by more than two goals. Now there is a lot of people who have a go at Moyes on here. But what about the players? Why can't they put their chances away. It's not Moyes' fault that we couldn't finish off the likes of Newcastle at home, Fulham away, Reading away. We should have won those games by about 3 or 4 goals but the players on the pitch weren't ruthless enough. We should have about 10-12 more points than we do in the league. The other thing that is disgusting on the pitch is this constant giving away goals from headers. What the **** is wrong with us defensively? Every single game we gift the opposition a headed goal. Jagielka, Heitinga, Distin and Fellaini are all players who are capable of winning the ball in the air but we're leaking goals in that manner every game.

As for the "We are Everton" comments. So what? Does that mean the red sh1te should be European Cup Winners every season because they have "won it 5 times"? We are Everton, a club that hasn't won a trophy in 18 years because of years of mis-management after Heysel and because of the financial gulf between us and the "top clubs".

People can have false hope all they want. I'd rather be realistic and appreciate we are where we are for a reason. We have a very capable first eleven when all of them are fit but we have a poor squad due to a lack of money available to strengthen it. I want us to win something as much as the next fan, but I just can't see it without serious investment.

Moyes' approach in certain games, like Liverpool away and the top clubs is pathetic but overall we manage to come away with a decent points total each season.

And regarding yesterday, I agree it was a disgrace from everyone involved but we wouldn't have won the Cup anyway. We beat United in the Semi in 2009, but then class prevailed and we got soundly beaten by big spending Chelsea. People are entitled to be annoyed about yesterday and our lack of trophies, but to expect success "because we are Everton" is just deluded and unrealistic in my opinion.
 

I don't expect success I demand it. I have become so infuriated with football in the last 15 years or so. I look at what Man City have to spend and the success Chelsea and obviously man united have and I want that for Everton again. I was brought up on the motto NSNO and watched Everton win 2 league titles and I am sure we would have won a European Cup too.

I do not accept were we are currently (probably why football makes me so angry these days). Money has ruined it and the current setup at the club has allowed the younger generation, fed by a biased media to believe we are some sort of plucky over achieving club. No we just have **** owners who have taken away any fight we once had. Makes me sick.
 
Tubey said:
Can't really put into words how shocking this post is.

We don't "expect success", we just don't expect abject failure.

We're not asking to win three league titles on the trot or anything like it's our birthright, but we're expecting to at least be in the mix regularly for domestic trophies if nothing else.

It's amazing how expectations have actually lowered thanks to David Moyes and his "plucky underdogs" tag he gives us constantly, with the "knife to a gunfight" crap.
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Spot on, just add Kenwright and the media and everyone forgets the previous 100 years or so of football.
 
On our day, we can beat any team in the league, as we showed against United in the first game of the season. Yesterday was easily the biggest match of the season against a poor Wigan team, yet we conceded three goals in just over three minutes.
It's not even the defeat that people are annoyed about, but the way in which we lost, if we'd gone for Wigan and they'd spawned a goal in the last minute to win, then it'd be different, but that's not what happened.
We are easily good enough to win either the FA Cup or the League Cup, the worst RS team I've ever seen managed to win one last season and Swansea won one this year against Bradford, we are and were better than those teams, so why shouldn't we be challenging for a cup?
 
EFC78 said:
I will probably get slated for this but something that has really struck me lately is how much a lot of Evertonians are self pitiers who expect success when we have no divine right to get it. It's becoming a trait that is very similar to the Kopites in my opinion.

Yesterday was an absolute disgrace from the players and Moyes but does anyone seriously believe we would have gone on to win the FA Cup? If we had gone through we would have been humiliated by United or City anyway. Both those clubs have spent hundreds of millions of pounds and we just can't compete. Just like we're falling away in the league now. The reason being is that the squad isn't big enough and our players aren't quite as good as we all think they are. We have a few players who are liabilities now, the likes of Neville, Naismith (on the right) and Heitinga, the latter who has been an absolute disgrace this season.

I'm a younger Evertonian who is just about old enough to have seen us win the FA Cup in 95. So to the older Evertonians, posts like these are probably hard to read after some of the triumphs those fans will have seen. I view our club as one of the historical and great clubs in the country but when arguing with fans of other clubs, we just aren't seen as any bigger or better than the likes of Newcastle, Spurs or Villa. We've won more than Spurs in our history but what have we done that's better than them recently? Spurs have just beaten Inter Milan 3-0 at home, something we won't be seeing for a while, if ever again.

It all comes down to money for me and we will never break into the top 4 without any real investment. Moyes has turned us around from relegation candidates to steady top 8 finishers but without spending 20-30m each season to add in a couple more players to the very good first 11 we have, we just won't push on. Nearly every other club around us has that luxury which is why Spurs are constantly breaking into the top 4 and going on European runs and we finish 7th or 8th and crash out of the cup each season.

Having said all that, my main point is that just because we're Everton FC who have done all we have in English Football, why do we have some sort of right to go and win anything? We haven't won a trophy for 18 years because we haven't been/and aren't good enough to win one. With the huge gap in spending between us and the likes of Chelsea, Man United and Man City, how are we supposed to compete? Another thing is that we all cry about how hard we have it. We're still 6th in the league. We have it a lot better than smaller clubs like Stoke and Reading and the clubs that are similar in stature to us like Villa, are going through absolute turmoil at their club. How many quarter/semi finals have Villa or Newcastle etc been in in recent years? How many times have Villa got to go away to Nuremburg, Lisbon etc (yes we got humiliated there too :lol: but at least we got to go).

We need to carry on getting behind the team (like we have done excellently all season by the way - home crowds have been good and away numbers have been unbelievable) and realise that where we are at the moment is realistic for the resources we have got. It could be alot better obviously, but it could also be a lot worse.
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I can only assume you finished last in the egg&spoon race every year and your parents fed you the old 'taking part that counts' bollocks.
 
There was a time in the 80's when we could rightly expect success. However due to the ineptitude and complacency of the board at the time, our club missed a huge opportunity to build on that success. The key member of that board at that time is still involved with the club and very close to BK, one Sir Philip Carter. Is it any wonder with blokes like him still around and presumably having the ear of the chairman, that the club wallows in stagnation.
 

EFC78 said:
How is it a shocking post? Fair enough if people don't agree with my opinion but I would hardly call it a shocking post.

I think people over-rate our team as well. The last time we battered a team was Swansea away. Since then we have rarely beaten a side in the league by more than two goals. Now there is a lot of people who have a go at Moyes on here. But what about the players? Why can't they put their chances away. It's not Moyes' fault that we couldn't finish off the likes of Newcastle at home, Fulham away, Reading away. We should have won those games by about 3 or 4 goals but the players on the pitch weren't ruthless enough. We should have about 10-12 more points than we do in the league. The other thing that is disgusting on the pitch is this constant giving away goals from headers. What the **** is wrong with us defensively? Every single game we gift the opposition a headed goal. Jagielka, Heitinga, Distin and Fellaini are all players who are capable of winning the ball in the air but we're leaking goals in that manner every game.

As for the "We are Everton" comments. So what? Does that mean the red sh1te should be European Cup Winners every season because they have "won it 5 times"? We are Everton, a club that hasn't won a trophy in 18 years because of years of mis-management after Heysel and because of the financial gulf between us and the "top clubs".

People can have false hope all they want. I'd rather be realistic and appreciate we are where we are for a reason. We have a very capable first eleven when all of them are fit but we have a poor squad due to a lack of money available to strengthen it. I want us to win something as much as the next fan, but I just can't see it without serious investment.

Moyes' approach in certain games, like Liverpool away and the top clubs is pathetic but overall we manage to come away with a decent points total each season.

And regarding yesterday, I agree it was a disgrace from everyone involved but we wouldn't have won the Cup anyway. We beat United in the Semi in 2009, but then class prevailed and we got soundly beaten by big spending Chelsea. People are entitled to be annoyed about yesterday and our lack of trophies, but to expect success "because we are Everton" is just deluded and unrealistic in my opinion.
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Not a shocking post lad, in fact 2 very thoughtful heartfelt posts.
 
Not sure we actually 'expect' success (trophies) as such.

But what we don't expect is for a team to turn out for the make or break game as far as the season is concerned with a half-arsed attitude which resulted in an abject performance and humiliation on national TV at home against a team in the relegation zone.

We DO have a right to expect that not to happen.
 

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