Why do Everton support StubHub?????

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Lee Smith said:
Not quite. If you read the T&Cs as posted by @bizzaro on page 6 carefully, you'll notice that the 'pro rata value' is only stipulated when using clause 5.4 (iii) to move your ticket on e.g. selling privately to a "Guest".

The use of StubHub ("via the club's official ticketing exchange system") is covered by a different clause, 5.4 (ii), which does not stipulate the pro rata limit.
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You're wrong there by the way.

Section 5.4 (i) through (iii) simply defines how season tickets can be transferred. Mechanisms of transferring to another 'natural person'.

The following paragraphs (A) through (E) actually defines the conditions of the transfer

These apply to any of points (i) through (iii)

So actually the pro rata limit DOES APPLY to (ii) via the Club’s official ticketing exchange system (if any), details of which will be available on the Website; or


You're not reading the totality of the paragraph 5.4 and how each section relates to the other.

First it defines the mechanisms of the transfer (three types)

Then it sets conditions for the transfer mechanisms.


"Guest" is also defined as any 'natural person' to whom the ticket is transferred. Including via the club website. In the first paragraph of 5.4


This is really in order for it to be in accordance with UK Laws that are quite strict in regards to the sale of football ticketing. For crowd order reasons.
 
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Incidentally.

The club's T&Cs strictly forbid any person with a season ticket selling or exchanging their tickets with anything other than a 'Natural Person'

This means if you ever sold the ticket to a company and then they tried to resell the ticket

this would be - strictly forbidden by the club's T&Cs.

This is likely to also target touts who might setup companies to facilitate mass reselling without authorisation. For profit.


I've reread point 5.4.

The club's existing terms and conditions very clearly say that season ticket - individual matches may not be exchanged for any profit as they can only be exchanged for a pro rata valuation clearly stated.

(D) the sale or transfer takes place in consideration of no payment or benefit which is in excess of the pro rata value of the Season Ticket for that Match (calculated as the total price for the Season Ticket divided by the total number of Matches covered by the Season Ticket); and


Therefore Stubhub are not following the club's own terms and conditions of sale - by allowing parties to advertise at above pro rata valuations for individual matches.

This point is incontrovertible.

This is what is causing all the issues and frustrations.


The second point - is that the issue of people buying a season ticket to sell all 19 matches.

This is an abuse of the season ticket itself that the club's T&Cs need to be firmed up for.
 
GrandOldTeam said:
They already have;

https://www.grandoldteam.com/2016/07/29/stubhub-partnership-continue-201617/

  • You can set your price and also change it whenever you like, although the Club has implemented a price cap on the maximum check out price for all Season Ticket holder listings.
Clearly, it's a too high as is but StubHub have their own business model.



The minimum price is a couple of quid to cover StubHub's fee's. Can sell for considerably less than face value - every ticket I've ever had on there has been cheaper than face value.



I know I won't make 3-5 games a season.
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Actually that is not is what is being reported by the media:

bizzaro said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p058gpf5

Comments start at 50:18

On BBC Radio Merseyside - Roger Phillips show 11 August 2017.

Everton Football Club respond within 10 minutes of the Everton fan making the comments about abuses of Season Tickets.
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The exchange price (check out price) is - or should be - stipulated by the club's T&Cs.

Which clearly says 'Pro Rata' exchange.

Stub Hub should not even be able to advertise a non-pro rata exchange price.


Additionally, Stub Hub should only be applying a fixed % of the fee or a fixed amount whichever is lower.

If they are applying variable fees and/or they are not actually price-caping in line with the club's T&Cs which stipulates pro-rata - then there is a serious and potentially illegal issue. Under UK consumer rights law. Which says goods and services cannot be advertised at misleadingly inflated prices and/or not in line with T&Cs established by the seller.

e.g. The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (as amended, 2014 etc)


They do seem to be applying variable fees also based on your photos of the site and seeing different prices for different games.

The club clearly state the price for transfer may only be 1/19th of the season ticket price in the T&Cs.

(D) the sale or transfer takes place in consideration of no payment or benefit which is in excess of the pro rata value of the Season Ticket for that Match (calculated as the total price for the Season Ticket divided by the total number of Matches covered by the Season Ticket); and


Everton need to ensure Stub Hub are only allowing exchanges in line with the club's T&Cs. That does not seem to be happening at the moment.
 
Also to double down.

Stub Hub are doing things not in accordance with the Everton T&Cs.

http://www.theticketingbusiness.com...ier-league-touting-row-sister-firm-ticketbis/

EVERTON DEFENDS STUBHUB DEAL IN PREMIER LEAGUE TOUTING ROW WITH SISTER-FIRM TICKETBIS
Ticketbis insists that it is doing nothing wrong as sales are between fans, rather than direct selling from the company. The firm said that since individual sellers set the prices, they could be both “above and below the original price”



The Everton T&Cs clearly say tickets cannot be transferred to non 'natural persons'

Ticketbis is allegedly selling tickets as a reseller which is strictly prohibited. Plus allowing individual sales in violation of the club's T&Cs.


As I have already outlined.

These ticket sales are covered under UK law. There is potential illegal activity going on under Consumer Protection law that the club need to get a grip of.

The club has obligations under UK law to consumers. As does Stub Hub.

If someone like me can in 10 minutes see that illegal activity is taking place - it will not take trading standards long to find it as well and take action. Where reported.

There is political support for this also.


Tom Watson (Labour’s Shadow Culture Secretary):

“The Premier League and consumer authorities need to come down hard on firms like StubHub and Ticketbis who are taking fans for a ride.”
 
bizzaro said:
Also to double down.

Stub Hub are doing things not in accordance with the Everton T&Cs.

http://www.theticketingbusiness.com...ier-league-touting-row-sister-firm-ticketbis/

EVERTON DEFENDS STUBHUB DEAL IN PREMIER LEAGUE TOUTING ROW WITH SISTER-FIRM TICKETBIS
Ticketbis insists that it is doing nothing wrong as sales are between fans, rather than direct selling from the company. The firm said that since individual sellers set the prices, they could be both “above and below the original price”



The Everton T&Cs clearly say tickets cannot be transferred to non 'natural persons'

Ticketbis is allegedly selling tickets as a reseller which is strictly prohibited. Plus allowing individual sales in violation of the club's T&Cs.


As I have already outlined.

These ticket sales are covered under UK law. There is potential illegal activity going on under Consumer Protection law that the club need to get a grip of.

The club has obligations under UK law to consumers. As does Stub Hub.

If someone like me can in 10 minutes see that illegal activity is taking place - it will not take trading standards long to find it as well and take action. Where reported.
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lollollol
 

Cant see the issue with StubHub and Everton, can see the issue with scum bag fans trying to make on it but ive known of people getting tickets for as little as £8 for league games, which is ace.
 

There are several very good reasons why some ST holders cannot get to many games and, on occasion, none at all in a season. These reasons may be short to medium term (ie may be for 12 months ahead) but longer term they do not want to lose the seat they have sat in for years and will return to it. In such cases stubhub, or whatever system is in place, provides the perfect answer.
We currently have to do this with one ticket and we price it by dividing the actual cost by 19 + a fiver for the selling costs. Some lucky person will be able to buy a derby ticket at less than face value.
Stubhub is easy and reliable and protects the purchaser. I set the price, I can alter the price and the class of ticket is there to see before payment is taken. I believe anyone is able to 'upgrade' a concession to an adult or whatever via the club when tickets are picked up.
We all want to believe our fans are special but we have the same number of unscrupulous people as any other club. The answer is not to buy over priced tickets - asking £200 or whatever for a big match ticket is not such a great idea when you're still holding it in your hand at 5 past kickoff.
 

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