Current Affairs What is Woke ?

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Sociology PhD mate! A wasted life some might say.


Ability and age are both material conditions which affect how you relate with the social world (typically by exclusion).

Published anything mate?

 

[d34noj]

To be fair that is just a nice thing to do, call somebody by what they want to be called. It is no skin off anybody's nose to do that. I would expect the scenario ,with the extreme majority of the people who work for the DWP, would be to say Mrs directly to the person and when they say "no it is actually Mr" they would apologise and then try to say Mr.

The people who I have been in direct communication with were always of the mindset that if people try then that is good enough for them. They are understanding that we all have an indoctrination of saying certain things, especially those of a more older age. I do struggle at times, my wife is queer and doesn't like female pronouns, etc. The amount of times I say 'she/her' is something that I am trying to work on.

In a blasé example, it is the same as if somebody who is recently divorced doesn't want to be called Mrs. I very much doubt that if somebody said this that anybody would have any problems reverting to Ms/Miss, so why is it a problem from she to he/them or he to she/them?

That's fine. I just wouldn't want to be 'forced' to do it - that screams narcissism.

As for the second bit, it's not biologically possible. Sex is immutable. Gender identity, fill your boots - just don't demand that everyone else believe your perception.

 

[Xizor]

That's not what you said though,

It's exactly what I said. The DWP is not forcing the subject of the post you replied to to use certain language.

If you want to make a separate point about the rights of employees there or anywhere else then go for it, but a tribunal has already found against the case you cited so probably need a better opening gambit than that guy.

The DWP mandating policies as an employer =/= "The British Government telling people how to speak". Get a grip and stop being so hysterical. If you had a job then you'd understand this sort of thing is universal (not the specific policies but acting under them whilst on the clock).

 

[d34noj]

It's exactly what I said. The DWP is not forcing the subject of the post you replied to to use certain language.

If you want to make a separate point about the rights of employees there or anywhere else then go for it, but a tribunal has already found against the case you cited so probably need a better opening gambit than that guy.

The DWP mandating policies as an employer =/= "The British Government telling people how to speak". Get a grip and stop being so hysterical. If you had a job then you'd understand this sort of thing is universal (not the specific policies but acting under them whilst on the clock).

Ahh apologies - it wasn't even you who made the post I replied to, it was @datblygu

The DWP have a POLICY (a statement of intent and is implemented as a procedure or protocol) for employee's to use preferred pronouns. The DWP is a department of the British Government, with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions making and/or signing off the policies. I'm not being hysterical, i'm giving you facts. These are all 'facts'. The original post said 'nobodies forcing you to use any terms' - yet as I said, 84550 people currently are under the direction of a senior member of Parliament.

There is no legal mandate in place for Employers to police employees into using co-workers' preferred pronouns, yet the DWP fired a DOCTOR on this basis. I'm quietly confident a health professional would need to know the sex of a patient to correctly assess.



As for the bolded bit - I've got 3 jobs mate, 2 boys at Uni so needs must.

 

[Jebus_lives]

You can apply to 'change' your gender legally, therefore what you put on any form you fill out can change from one day to the next.

OK. And how is that causing bother?

 

[d34noj]

OK. And how is that causing bother?

I never said it was. My point was if it can be changed on a whim, it deems it irrelevant.

 

[datblygu]

Published anything mate?

Yeah, but nothing I'd share here. Too boring and niche.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Yeah, but nothing I'd share here. Too boring and niche.

Go on mate, what's the sub-field at least. Broad discipline is Sociology, so looks at all sorts. I work with a lot of social scientists and quite like what they get up to.

 

[datblygu]

I never said it was. My point was if it can be changed on a whim, it deems it irrelevant.

Gender identity is enduring. People don't change their gender identity on a whim.

 

[d34noj]

Gender identity is enduring. People don't change their gender identity on a whim.

You'd think so wouldn't you.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Ahh apologies - it wasn't even you who made the post I replied to, it was @datblygu

The DWP have a POLICY (a statement of intent and is implemented as a procedure or protocol) for employee's to use preferred pronouns. The DWP is a department of the British Government, with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions making and/or signing off the policies. I'm not being hysterical, i'm giving you facts. These are all 'facts'. The original post said 'nobodies forcing you to use any terms' - yet as I said, 84550 people currently are under the direction of a senior member of Parliament.

There is no legal mandate in place for Employers to police employees into using co-workers' preferred pronouns, yet the DWP fired a DOCTOR on this basis. I'm quietly confident a health professional would need to know the sex of a patient to correctly assess.



As for the bolded bit - I've got 3 jobs mate, 2 boys at Uni so needs must.

Policy also has to reflect the legal and regulatory frameworks that the department/organisation works under.

In some instances, it will be an enforced activity or something written to prempt legal action.

In this case (if its the one I think you're referring to) , it's a balance of rights under the Equality Act. His rights (religious beliefs) under the act were protected but the employer didn't discriminate against him.

They asked him to follow a policy, he refused and left. The fact that someone has a particular set of beliefs does not give them the right to treat other people in a manner that acts outside of an employers legitimate requirements or the law.

 

[Xizor]

As for the bolded bit - I've got 3 jobs mate, 2 boys at Uni so needs must.

There you go then. Stop being silly as you should understand that if your employer's policy was that you acted a certain way that didn't impact on your rights under the equality act, it would be up to you to conform to that or seek alternative employment. As for the rest, you're just conflating 'facts' that are irrelevant to each other and ending up somewhere off grid. Just accept that you've made a fool out of yourself here:

- A poster complained about a new word that "they" are forcing the use of
- Other posters pointed out that the initial poster didn't have to use the word, nobody was forcing it
- You came in on a tangent about the DWP forcing employees to use preferred pronouns (not even the word cisgender, the original cause of complaint) and said "they kinda are" which has been shown to be objectively untrue as applied to the subject at hand

This is when you decided to try hysterical nonsense and equated the DWP's employment policies (affecting 80,000 people who are free to leave that employment if they disagree with them) as somehow representative of state-sponsored censorship on behalf of the British Government against the general population.

As said, get a grip. I'm not sure how someone with 3 jobs can afford to waste as much of their time as you have here.

 

[d34noj]

Policy also has to reflect the legal and regulatory frameworks that the department/organisation works under.

In some instances, it will be an enforced activity or something written to prempt legal action.

In this case (if its the one I think you're referring to) , it's a balance of rights under the Equality Act. His rights (religious beliefs) under the act were protected but the employer didn't discriminate against him.

They asked him to follow a policy, he refused and left. The fact that someone has a particular set of beliefs does not give them the right to treat other people in a manner that acts outside of an employers legitimate requirements or the law.

Oh no I get it mate, and i'm with you - I'm just stating that a policy to dictate speech is in place in a Government-led workplace.

What I was getting at is that his religious argument was a foolish one - i'd have gone down the biology route, as it's immutable and relevant.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I never said it was. My point was if it can be changed on a whim, it deems it irrelevant.

There are a huge number of people on this forum who change their belief about our football club week to week...they will be sad to know that it's completely irrelevant.

 

[d34noj]

There you go then. Stop being silly as you should understand that if your employer's policy was that you acted a certain way that didn't impact on your rights under the equality act, it would be up to you to conform to that or seek alternative employment. As for the rest, you're just conflating 'facts' that are irrelevant to each other and ending up somewhere off grid. Just accept that you've made a fool out of yourself here:

- A poster complained about a new word that "they" are forcing the use of
- Other posters pointed out that the initial poster didn't have to use the word, nobody was forcing it
- You came in on a tangent about the DWP forcing employees to use preferred pronouns (not even the word cisgender, the original cause of complaint) and said "they kinda are" which has been shown to be objectively untrue as applied to the subject at hand

This is when you decided to try hysterical nonsense and equated the DWP's employment policies (affecting 80,000 people who are free to leave that employment if they disagree with them) as somehow representative of state-sponsored censorship on behalf of the British Government against the general population.

As said, get a grip. I'm not sure how someone with 3 jobs can afford to waste as much of their time as you have here.

84,550.