Current Affairs What is Woke ?

[wandyr79]

In this era of remakes and updates, I think it's pretty important for black actors, in particular, to at least be considered for traditionally white roles. The vast majority of old books, comics, TV shows, films etc. centred around white leads and heroes which would leave a pretty limited menu of opportunities for black actors if studios were to stick rigidly to the source material for a remake. I personally couldn't be arsed if they recast Bond or Batman or whatever as black, these characters have been overhauled and reinvented hundreds of times by now.

However, I have to admit I largely hate modern screenwriting. When I'm watching a film made in the last ten years, it often feels like there is a disproportional emphasis on message over story. I have no problem with messaging (all the great films are flush with it) but when a message is hammered home to the detriment of character development, good dialogue, narrative tension, story progression etc. it just leaves me feeling flat. A few lads on here will put that down to "wokeness", but I think there is just a prevalence of bad film-making that's roughly in line with the regression I see in almost every other form of artistic endeavour. Style over substance and almost completely risk-averse. Maybe I'm just getting to the "it was better in my day" stage of my life

Agree with all of that.

I just don't understand why anybody would get that bothered about the colour or gender of an actor in a non-defined fictional role.

 

[Prevenger17]

Agree with all of that.

I just don't understand why anybody would get that bothered about the colour or gender of an actor in a non-defined fictional role.

Oh me neither. Some of these culture war bozos are proper snowflakes

 

[wandyr79]

On the white historical characters played by none white actors there's been an increasing amount, Anne Boleyn recently, Cleopatra played by a black actress in a docudrama (made by Will smiths missus), Denzil Washington playing Hannibal Barca in an upcoming movie. A fair few others also, those are off the top of my head as they were all historical subjects I have a good interest in.

As for fiction, entirely depends for me if it's based upon a known source material, if so leave it alone, if it's a complete new piece of work - go for it, even stuff like the last doctor who - given his nature it's perfectly fine casting a none white actor in the role, it's not his trie form anyways.

I also think fiction created and written this way portrays a much stronger depiction, Moana for example felt hugely more authentic as a movie than Snow White will.

It is a fine line but if a writer/director wants to do a biopic that is true to the history/setting then they should cast an actor that has the same ethnicity. If the story is a fictional piece based in that time period then I really have no issue with different actors playing those roles.

Snow White could be cast as a man and the dwarves as trans-men/women for all I care, if the trailer/teaser hooked me I would watch and hopefully enjoy.

 

[Rita_Poon]

Sooooo authentic.

tried 7 different Connery 'you only live twice' pics, where he's awfully made up as Japanese. All failed. I give in.

 

[bluestevon]

Fair point. I think the issue is that we have played people of colour for decades without issue and now object when it is reversed

Yeah and back then it was wrong also mate and primarily due to restrictions, going way back the pantomime dame hails from only actors it being prohibited for women as a profession. Later it became either the lack of none white actors/actresses or in the industry - no studio was gonna cast a minority in the lead role. Had a few exceptions but very rare and usually supporting roles in a very stereotypes portrayal. (Pottier in the Heated the night is one of the first I can recall that changed this)

Now there's zero reason, besides lazy writers not wanting to create something original to race swap characters the other way round. As I said HoTD does it very well - shows like the wire - the most memorable and multi faceted characters in the show are Stringer Bell and Omar, Moana and another i forget the name of set in new Orleans i think (frog prince type) do it great in kids cartoons.

The history thing just really annoys hugely though as it's almost like trying to rewrite historical characters to portray a kind of multi culturalism that never existed

 

[d34noj]

Sooooo authentic.

This is King Edward VI, son of Henry VIII and Jane Seymour - portrayed as black, gay and disabled by Amazon.



This is his actual portrait in Westminster Abbey. Strange depicting him as a 30 year old black man when Edward was a scrawny ginger kid who died at 15 years old.

This is what I mean by 'idiocy', just needed to wheel him out in a frock for the 'inclusivity bingo' full house. Strangely the show was cancelled due to poor viewing figures.

 

[Rita_Poon]

In the heat of the night*

 

[Alan Whittle]

View attachment 279729

This is King Edward VI, son of Henry VIII and Jane Seymour - portrayed as black, gay and disabled by Amazon.

View attachment 279731

This is his actual portrait in Westminster Abbey. Strange depicting him as a 30 year old black man when Edward was a scrawny ginger kid who died at 15 years old.

This is what I mean by 'idiocy', just needed to wheel him out in a frock for the 'inclusivity bingo' full house. Strangely the show was cancelled due to poor viewing figures.

Yes. I think it can be done and done well, people can’t be excluded from roles for their skin colour but for goodness sake, make it believable. Not the same I know but the very funny and talented Alan Carr would be terrible in “Gangs of London”

 

[trueblue84]

You may be thinking of the movie about Genghis Khan were he was played by...

John Wayne...

View attachment 279726

Two wongs don't make a white?

 

[bluestevon]

In the heat of the night*

Yeah auto correct on my phone has spasms at times.

That movie still stands the test of time though, great work by all involved.

 

[Xizor]

I really don't have a problem with casting actors of a different ethnicity to historical roles, generally. Film-making is an art form like any other and as such open to interpretation by the artist and the audience.

That said, there is a spectrum more or less of where it makes sense - a po-faced historical biopic might struggle to be believable, whilst a heavily dramatised take on real events could get away with it. A writer inserting that real person wholesale into a fictional work can just go right ahead and try out whatever it thinks might work, it's their pen and story.

What I don't get it is why it matters to people so much. If you can't accept a casting choice then just don't watch (or ever re-watch) the work, and move on. I just don't understand the self-righteous crusades people go on about this stuff, pretending there's some sort of virtuous cause underpinning their spleen-venting.

 

[Kurt.]

Did elves live at the same time as the dinosaurs?

I think that’s the link between their fair hair and white complexion…. Pale-ontology

 

[d34noj]

I really don't have a problem with casting actors of a different ethnicity to historical roles, generally. Film-making is an art form like any other and as such open to interpretation by the artist and the audience.

That said, there is a spectrum more or less of where it makes sense - a po-faced historical biopic might struggle to be believable, whilst a heavily dramatised take on real events could get away with it. A writer inserting that real person wholesale into a fictional work can just go right ahead and try out whatever it thinks might work, it's their pen and story.

What I don't get it is why it matters to people so much. If you can't accept a casting choice then just don't watch (or ever re-watch) the work, and move on. I just don't understand the self-righteous crusades people go on about this stuff, pretending there's some sort of virtuous cause underpinning their spleen-venting.

Is the casting choice itself not self-righteous?

 

[Rita_Poon]

professor Xavier played Othello no less.

 

[Xizor]

Is the casting choice itself not self-righteous?

You're certainly free to believe that in any specific circumstance, others might not share the same perspective.