Current Affairs What is Woke ?

[Spadge Vernacular]

Took like thirty seconds to check mate, not exactly like splitting the atom.

Almost a bot like degree of activity though so well in, keep up the good work.

Is it just that thread comrade, or are you conducting an analysis of the whole site?

 

[bluestevon]

But the same people always see them the same way. The woke will applaud it while the non-woke get cross

My thoughts would be, and this certainly applies to historical movies about real people or times, the race or gender changing will never be tolerated by those applauding it if it happens the other way around.

Imagine if Martin Luther King was portrayed by Anthony Hopkins, or they did an Oprah Winfrey biopic and cast a white actress/actor in the role.

 

[Hinchcliffe's Corner]

Isn't that a case of retrofitting a word or phrase how it's viewed and used now (or regarded as politically incorrect so not used) into a time when the word has a completely different context.

Then labelling the person as racist because that's what Hinchcliffe's corner thinks when he reads it, so putting your modern sensibilities upon something.

Least you haven't done what I've seen before though and see someone using black Numeanorians as a way of saying he was racist .

The sub human thing - which I've never seen those words if they were written by Tolkien, would you not think it was more a description of the behaviour and actions of those essentially corrupted by his worlds version of Satan than somehow trying to morph it into some view about racial superiority?

I don't know, I think it's more that that's how people from Africa were perceived back when Tolkien grew up, the stereotypes of living in mud huts, unintelligent etc etc. The sub human thing: He described people from the deep south of his fictional world (based on ours) as looking like trolls, I don't think that's particularly endearing.
I'm not suggesting Tolkien was anything other than a product of his environment and upbringing (he was born in South Africa). His stories are based on his life experiences, or more pertinent, his experiences with death. I don't think it's a stretch to draw other conclusions.

 

[bluestevon]

Is it just that thread comrade, or are you conducting an analysis of the whole site?

Nah just that thread and just you from it mate, must make you feel special.

Btw constantly saying 'comrade' is just plain odd, it's like some old bloke who thinks he's funny constantly trying to use the same joke time and time again thinking he's really witty.

 

[Xizor]

I don't know, I think it's more that that's how people from Africa were perceived back when Tolkien grew up, the stereotypes of living in mud huts, unintelligent etc etc.

Case in point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintin_in_the_Congo

I'm not going to put any of the images here but there's one on the wikipedia article that demonstrates it well enough.

 

[Hinchcliffe's Corner]

Case in point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintin_in_the_Congo

I'm not going to put any of the images here but there's one on the wikipedia article that demonstrates it well enough.

Perfect, thank you.

Just want to add even though I have very differing views to @bluestevon and @d34noj but I enjoy the chat as it feels like it's in good faith. Wish more CA was like this.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Nah just that thread and just you from it mate, must make you feel special.

Btw constantly saying 'comrade' is just plain odd, it's like some old bloke who thinks he's funny constantly trying to use the same joke time and time again thinking he's really witty.

Ah, so I have stalker. Marvellous work comrade.

Good to see you active in the CA again as the US election approaches. I've missed your insight into all things potato. X

Woke though...

 

[wandyr79]

My thoughts would be, and this certainly applies to historical movies about real people or times, the race or gender changing will never be tolerated by those applauding it if it happens the other way around.

Imagine if Martin Luther King was portrayed by Anthony Hopkins, or they did an Oprah Winfrey biopic and cast a white actress/actor in the role.

But where have white historical figures, in a true biopic or historical drama been played by non-white people.

If the film is meant to be a true depiction of actual events then every character should be played by somebody of that same ethnicity. Modern history films/shows, you would be hard pushed to find any examples of this not happening. There are some examples of historical films, that are meant to be accurate depictions, that have had white people playing Asians, etc. Can't remember the film, off the top of my head, but I am sure Matt Damon played something like this and there was criticism in some quarters.

If you are watching a fictional film and thinking that the casting is wrong, because they have a different colour of skin than your own perception of the character then that is on you.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

My thoughts would be, and this certainly applies to historical movies about real people or times, the race or gender changing will never be tolerated by those applauding it if it happens the other way around.

Imagine if Martin Luther King was portrayed by Anthony Hopkins, or they did an Oprah Winfrey biopic and cast a white actress/actor in the role.

Fair point. I think the issue is that we have played people of colour for decades without issue and now object when it is reversed

 

[Prevenger17]

Casting a black woman in a perceived white role is progressive, thoughtful, etc. However, some people will see this as PC, be offended by it, and show intolerance towards it. Maybe they just auditioned better, the casting director saw them as perfect for the role because of their ability?

In this era of remakes and updates, I think it's pretty important for black actors, in particular, to at least be considered for traditionally white roles. The vast majority of old books, comics, TV shows, films etc. centred around white leads and heroes which would leave a pretty limited menu of opportunities for black actors if studios were to stick rigidly to the source material for a remake. I personally couldn't be arsed if they recast Bond or Batman or whatever as black, these characters have been overhauled and reinvented hundreds of times by now.

However, I have to admit I largely hate modern screenwriting. When I'm watching a film made in the last ten years, it often feels like there is a disproportional emphasis on message over story. I have no problem with messaging (all the great films are flush with it) but when a message is hammered home to the detriment of character development, good dialogue, narrative tension, story progression etc. it just leaves me feeling flat. A few lads on here will put that down to "wokeness", but I think there is just a prevalence of bad film-making that's roughly in line with the regression I see in almost every other form of artistic endeavour. Style over substance and almost completely risk-averse. Maybe I'm just getting to the "it was better in my day" stage of my life

 

[bluestevon]

Case in point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tintin_in_the_Congo

I'm not going to put any of the images here but there's one on the wikipedia article that demonstrates it well enough.

Rice Burrows also Agatha Christie (especially) racial stereotypes of the first and the second, well reading anything by her is kinda hard going now.

 

[bluestevon]

But where have white historical figures, in a true biopic or historical drama been played by non-white people.

If the film is meant to be a true depiction of actual events then every character should be played by somebody of that same ethnicity. Modern history films/shows, you would be hard pushed to find any examples of this not happening. There are some examples of historical films, that are meant to be accurate depictions, that have had white people playing Asians, etc. Can't remember the film, off the top of my head, but I am sure Matt Damon played something like this and there was criticism in some quarters.

If you are watching a fictional film and thinking that the casting is wrong, because they have a different colour of skin than your own perception of the character then that is on you.

You may be thinking of the movie about Genghis Khan were he was played by...

John Wayne...

 

[Alan Whittle]

My thoughts would be, and this certainly applies to historical movies about real people or times, the race or gender changing will never be tolerated by those applauding it if it happens the other way around.

Imagine if Martin Luther King was portrayed by Anthony Hopkins, or they did an Oprah Winfrey biopic and cast a white actress /actor in the role.

Ooh oooh ooh, Diane Morgan!!

 

[Alan Whittle]

You may be thinking of the movie about Genghis Khan were he was played by...

John Wayne...

View attachment 279726

Sooooo authentic.

 

[bluestevon]

But where have white historical figures, in a true biopic or historical drama been played by non-white people.

If the film is meant to be a true depiction of actual events then every character should be played by somebody of that same ethnicity. Modern history films/shows, you would be hard pushed to find any examples of this not happening. There are some examples of historical films, that are meant to be accurate depictions, that have had white people playing Asians, etc. Can't remember the film, off the top of my head, but I am sure Matt Damon played something like this and there was criticism in some quarters.

If you are watching a fictional film and thinking that the casting is wrong, because they have a different colour of skin than your own perception of the character then that is on you.

On the white historical characters played by none white actors there's been an increasing amount, Anne Boleyn recently, Cleopatra played by a black actress in a docudrama (made by Will smiths missus), Denzil Washington playing Hannibal Barca in an upcoming movie. A fair few others also, those are off the top of my head as they were all historical subjects I have a good interest in.

As for fiction, entirely depends for me if it's based upon a known source material, if so leave it alone, if it's a complete new piece of work - go for it, even stuff like the last doctor who - given his nature it's perfectly fine casting a none white actor in the role, it's not his trie form anyways.

I also think fiction created and written this way portrays a much stronger depiction, Moana for example felt hugely more authentic as a movie than Snow White will.