We need to talk about Nottingham Forest.

[Saint Domingo]

That kind of chaos might work at lower levels - and you can definitely argue it did work for Marinakis at lower levels - but I really don't think the same argument applies in the top flight. If this constant and hilarious managerial churn was working, they'd be chasing the Champions League spots - but they weren't under Ange or Dyche and they won't be, in all likelihood, under Vitor or whichever out-of-work chancer needs to top up his bank account. Their current direction of travel is down. They've peaked. Whether they stay up is now the question. I think West Ham have more about them.

Managers tend to have a certain ppg range. In certain clubs in certain moments of form they go to the top of the range, in other clubs they’ll go to the bottom. Over time though the range doesn’t often get exceeded either way.

Dyche is somewhere between 1 and 1.3 points per game

Moyes is somewhere a bit higher 1.2 to 1.8

They tend to always produce this type of form (with a few exceptions). When you’re in a relegation scrap though that ppg tends to keep you above the line, it did for us. It probably would do for Forest if the trend continued.

Moyes ppg will move teams up the table to minor European positions.

If clubs genuinely want to crack the CL though they need to get a manager thats a 2ppg guy.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

That kind of chaos might work at lower levels - and you can definitely argue it did work for Marinakis at lower levels - but I really don't think the same argument applies in the top flight. If this constant and hilarious managerial churn was working, they'd be chasing the Champions League spots - but they weren't under Ange or Dyche and they won't be, in all likelihood, under Vitor or whichever out-of-work chancer needs to top up his bank account. Their current direction of travel is down. They've peaked. Whether they stay up is now the question. I think West Ham have more about them.

Here's the thing though mate, it's already worked.

Nobody can take away what he's achieved there.

It's like some need to refresh their perspective on where Forest were, and for how long before he rocked up.

He’s sacked the messiah so of course he’s now in the wrong

You got me there mate.

Apart from the posts where I said I wouldn't have hired him there in the first place, and as recently as this morning, said I understand the sacking;

But, considering he has months left in the job no matter what - I understand the sacking. There was never a chance he was surviving beyond this summer and I've long shared a view that you can't allow a very obviously interim manager to manage a relegation fight.

They'll be hoping new manager bounce can box them off quickly, and maybe win the Europa, with this type of new manager novelty;

He still saved our club.

‘Beyond a miracle’ - @MikeH72 2023

All together now.….#thankyougaffer

That he did.

The bile/hatred will always bewilder me, I must admit - I like to poke that occasionally.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Managers tend to have a certain ppg range. In certain clubs in certain moments of form they go to the top of the range, in other clubs they’ll go to the bottom. Over time though the range doesn’t often get exceeded either way.

Dyche is somewhere between 1 and 1.3 points per game

Moyes is somewhere a bit higher 1.2 to 1.8

They tend to always produce this type of form (with a few exceptions). When you’re in a relegation scrap though that ppg tends to keep you above the line, it did for us. It probably would do for Forest if the trend continued.

Moyes ppg will move teams up the table to minor European positions.

If clubs genuinely want to crack the CL though they need to get a manager thats a 2ppg guy.

Generally it's money and wages that dictate it.

You need that to attract a manager with that record, too.

 

[Iana]

He will land back on his feet at some other club, he already has a media spouting "best win percentage",

This annoyed me so much that with a bit of time on my hands I did a bit of digging into his PL only game stats at Burnley,Everton and Forest.
At Burnley he averaged 1.1 points per game over nearly 7 seasons.
At Everton he averaged 1.15 points per game(it was 1.04 with points deductions).
At Forest he averaged 1.22 ppg over 18 games.

His aim is to get to 40 points but his approach will always leave a team hovering around the relegation places until almost the final day of a season. He relegated Burnley twice with this approach and was on course for a third until he was sacked by them.

He’s not a very good manager and giving him better players just means they end up playing at his level. He would have been ok with a clean sheet and a point last night as that fits his career to date.

 

[Swartzy]

Oh forget that someone just went two foot in on @GrandOldTeam OMG WOW someone please call the cops it gonna go OFF.

Chico, You really have hit peak form recently

 

[efcste97]

Questionable decision by Forest IMO bbc were reporting yesterday if his average since going there was extended over the season, they’d be mid table.

It’s a bit of a mess there - four managers in what 6 months….

On record as always being hugely grateful to him for the job he did here, so sad it hasn’t worked out for him, he lives there etc.

Hopefully Forest go down, mess of a club, who behave without any class or dignity!

So sad????

I personally wanted him to fail miserably, which he has.

 

[Drico]

Here's the thing though mate, it's already worked.

Nobody can take away what he's achieved there.

It's like some need to refresh their perspective on where Forest were, and for how long before he rocked up.

I don't know why you are aiming this at me. I said you can definitely argue it worked at lower levels. Because, well, they have risen to where they were last season.

But by the same token, it hasn't been working in the top flight lately. This season for certain. Now, maybe this season is an outlier. But I cannot see how you can keep spending millions on paying off multiple short-term managers and not impacting what you can spend on players or your PSR situation.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I don't know why you are aiming this at me. I said you can definitely argue it worked at lower levels. Because, well, they have risen to where they were last season.

But by the same token, it hasn't been working in the top flight lately. This season for certain. Now, maybe this season is an outlier. But I cannot see how you can keep spending millions on paying off multiple short-term managers and not impacting what you can spend on players or your PSR situation.

?

Because it was a direct response to your post to me. You said his chaos works lower levels.

I'm saying they've consolidated and remained a Premier League team - they were favourites for relegation that first season - how many promoted teams have done that?

Sprinkle in Wembley, and Europa League football (even if due to Palace balls up after qualified for Conference).

It's not pretty, it's chaos, he's basically Moshiri and at some point you expect the wheels to come flying right off but the point in September, and remains to be true, is Marinakis has done absolute wonders for that football club when you review the before and now.

 

[Swartzy]

This Summer is going to be crazy !

Going to need a Manager transfer thread..

 

[pfim]

Here's the thing though mate, it's already worked.

Nobody can take away what he's achieved there.

It's like some need to refresh their perspective on where Forest were, and for how long before he rocked up.



You got me there mate.

Apart from the posts where I said I wouldn't have hired him there in the first place, and as recently as this morning, said I understand the sacking;





That he did.

The bile/hatred will always bewilder me, I must admit - I like to poke that occasionally.

While 7th and a Conference League place it noteworthy (only Textor's incompetence put them in the Europa), he took that momentum and squashed it by berating his manager on the pitch and running him out of town.

Manager 1: organized, counter-attacking squad
Manager 2: Open, free flowing, little regard for shape or defense
Manager 3: Overwhelmingly compact, shape and defense priorities 1-10

All within 6 months. This is the mismanagement, not going through 3 managers, but going through three very different managers. If there's ever been a time it's been tried (maybe Swansea 10 years ago?) it won't work.

You look at clubs like Brentford, Brighton etc...the clubs with models, they don't transform their playing style with each appointment.

As far as Dyche goes, he managed the noise better than anyone could have hoped at Everton. The football? Good enough, just. And I'm sure there are others out there who could have done a better job, but bringing that up ignores the dumpster fire that Moshiri et al created, no one of any substance was taking that job. Just look at the two who took it before him...

 

[Rita_Poon]

That's a surprising stat.

Has to include the wins vs part timers in the euro league thing.

 

[blue to the bone]

Can we not just all get on and agree.
That Dyche is an insufferable arse hole.

 

[Gilbert..]

From what ive read and heard of Forest fans they sussed him out after about 5 games. If plan A didnt work he'd try plan A. If that didnt work he'd try plan A.
Heard him doing a interview after the leeds loss and the reporter asked him if he felt under pressure. He replied, nobody asked me that after we beat liverpool.
Fella absolutely hated anyone not telling him the sun didnt shine out of his arse.

 

[MikeH72]

From what ive read and heard of Forest fans they sussed him out after about 5 games. If plan A didnt work he'd try plan A. If that didnt work he'd try plan A.
Heard him doing a interview after the leeds loss and the reporter asked him if he felt under pressure. He replied, nobody asked me that after we beat liverpool.
Fella absolutely hated anyone not telling him the sun didnt shine out of his arse.

He’s just a narcissist. Spent his whole career with two idiots next to him and mates in the media telling him how great he is. Completely unable to look at himself and critically evaluate, no wonder his former players hate him everywhere he’s been.

 

[coollino]

From what ive read and heard of Forest fans they sussed him out after about 5 games. If plan A didnt work he'd try plan A. If that didnt work he'd try plan A.
Heard him doing a interview after the leeds loss and the reporter asked him if he felt under pressure. He replied, nobody asked me that after we beat liverpool.
Fella absolutely hated anyone not telling him the sun didnt shine out of his arse.

Probably the same for the players too, once their good run at the start fell off