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Blue in Brazil
Player Valuation: £500k
So, according to you, Moyes deliberately didn't play a squad member who would have given the team a better chance of winning because of personal animosity or some other strange reason? And that should be as obvious to us all as it is to you.
Outside of politics, you normally talk a lot of sense TX Bill, but you've lost me completely here...
Why must that be the case?
Look, what we had with VDM was a decent player with an attitude problem. Part of this may or may not have arisen from the sad circumstances around his kid, but that does not excuse unprofessional behaviour like not keeping yourself in top condition etc.
Now, in these cases there's two options. Either you give the player your full support, lots of first team chances etc, or you don't, and only pick him when there's nobody else.
The problem with giving him every chance is that it has a knock on effect on team spirit - you can't expect everyone else to be totally professional when somebody is getting a free ride. Sometimes, however, the player is good enough to justify this - Ginola in his prime springs to mind - apparently he would often excuse himself from training, claiming he knew his body better than anyone else. But at the end of the day, you were better with him than without him, so you put up with him.
But is VDM that great? Good enough to risk the team ethic? It's hard to say from the outside, without knowing all the facts, but I would point out that our improvement over the last 5 years is down to team ethic and professionalism to a great extent.
It's just my opinion that Moyes handled the situation very well (apart from signing him in the first place, but in fairness I think we all thought he was a very good value signing at the time). That's an opinion, and yours may differ, but I certainly don't think you can state as a fact that Moyes has been at fault.
Rook
Player Valuation: £80m
I pity the balance board.
I do think Moyes should have gave him more a chance this year though. Especially when our players were dropping like they were extras in Saving Private Ryan. Despite looking more and more like Viduka every day he was probably our best attacking option on the bench by a mile.
I wish I could find them but I remember reading some articles from neutral publications talking about what steal it was to for Moyes to get this guy for so cheap.
Blue Wiz
Player Valuation: £25m
Since Moyes had said to him that he wasn't going to be in the plans in the future I can't understand how people agree with VdM that Moyes has ruined his career. It was VdM who didn't want to leave even though clubs wanted him. I fully understand that he didn't want to move his daughter, but it was his choise to stay even though he knew he wasn't in the plans, so he shouldn't point the finger at Moyes.
I might agree that he possibly could have gotten a few more sub-ins during the season due to our injurylist. But if the choise is to throw in a player that is on his way out or let a youngster that might be with the club for years to come get some experience... it's a tough choise.
No matter what Moyes would get slammed by a few fans, either those who (like Rook) would have prefered to give VdM more chances to prove himself, or others (like me) that wants to give youngsters the chance to shine. It's a fine line to walk, and I'm happy I don't need to do it.
Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian
The Unobstructed View
who would ewant to leave when taking the sort of bunce he's been taking in return for doin' nothin
f 'off and dont come back
f 'off and dont come back
Nebbiolo
Valuation: £108 million
The point is, at times late on in games, we could have done with VDM. Moyes chose not to play him, despite him being on the bench sometimes. Why? perhaps because he personalised the problem with him.
Anyway, I'm not here to bitch at Moyes. He's probably the most important individual at the club. He's the reason we feel proud to be Evertonians. He's a great man, he just takes offence quite easily.
Anyway, I'm not here to bitch at Moyes. He's probably the most important individual at the club. He's the reason we feel proud to be Evertonians. He's a great man, he just takes offence quite easily.
coolblue007
Player Valuation: Pssssht
The bottom line .... don't fkcu witht he boss. Show respect and act like a professional and you will be treated as such.
Show up hung over and out of shape, and you'll likely be having a seat for a while.
Show up hung over and out of shape, and you'll likely be having a seat for a while.
as for the choice between playing VdM or a youngster, Moyes was absolutely acting in the best long term interests of the club by promoting Rodwell and Gosling above VdM.
Barring the fact that VdM was so regularly injured he was never likely to ever be match fit (by which I mean sharp and up to speed), and as such there could be no guarantee he would be better than, or even match, what was sent out on the pitch, his attitude was poor, he was here to pick up his paycheck until he moved on elsewhere as soon as his circumstances allowed.
Keeping young talent out of the side for someone like that (who, I believe, wouldn't offer much more on the pitch in his condition) would send out entirely the wrong message. It would have stunted the development of our fringe youth players. Instead of seeing some quality young talent heading for Goodison knowing they had a better chance than at one of the big 4, we would have risked losing some of our own talent instead.
Had we been talking about the VdM of 2002, then it would have been a tougher call, but he was long gone, we got the VdM who had already been pissing his talent up a wall in Italy for 2 years before coming here and continuing in the same vein.
We all wanted him to succeed, unfortunately it would seem that we all wanted it more than he did. At the money we paid, it was worth the risk (even factoring in his wages) because had it paid off it would have been spectacular business on a par with the Cahill, Arteta and Pienaar deals. It just didn't pay off this time.
As for his 'parting shot', I'm quite glad we didn't have that attitude poisoning the dressing room too often.
Barring the fact that VdM was so regularly injured he was never likely to ever be match fit (by which I mean sharp and up to speed), and as such there could be no guarantee he would be better than, or even match, what was sent out on the pitch, his attitude was poor, he was here to pick up his paycheck until he moved on elsewhere as soon as his circumstances allowed.
Keeping young talent out of the side for someone like that (who, I believe, wouldn't offer much more on the pitch in his condition) would send out entirely the wrong message. It would have stunted the development of our fringe youth players. Instead of seeing some quality young talent heading for Goodison knowing they had a better chance than at one of the big 4, we would have risked losing some of our own talent instead.
Had we been talking about the VdM of 2002, then it would have been a tougher call, but he was long gone, we got the VdM who had already been pissing his talent up a wall in Italy for 2 years before coming here and continuing in the same vein.
We all wanted him to succeed, unfortunately it would seem that we all wanted it more than he did. At the money we paid, it was worth the risk (even factoring in his wages) because had it paid off it would have been spectacular business on a par with the Cahill, Arteta and Pienaar deals. It just didn't pay off this time.
As for his 'parting shot', I'm quite glad we didn't have that attitude poisoning the dressing room too often.
He was a waste of space, anybody that cant see that is blind.
I cant believe all his fanboys are having a go at Moyes over this, he was given countless chances and blew every single 1.
Clearly lots has gone on behind the scenes and if you think Moyes would ignore a player on 35k a week out of spite, you are supporting the wrong team.
Good riddance to very bad rubbish.
I cant believe all his fanboys are having a go at Moyes over this, he was given countless chances and blew every single 1.
Clearly lots has gone on behind the scenes and if you think Moyes would ignore a player on 35k a week out of spite, you are supporting the wrong team.
Good riddance to very bad rubbish.
TX Bill
Player Valuation: £80m
I understand that I'm in the very very small minority here but yes, I think there was more to it between him and Moyes. He wasn't injured his entire time here. Granted he wasn't first choice but when we had other players injured and the opportunity to get a return on our investment by using him, Moyes didn't.
I agree with the majority about how his career here panned out. That much is obvious to everyone.
But I can't understand why Moyes didn't play him when he had the opportunity to.
Ah, go ahead and just add VDM along with politics to my "not talking sense" list.
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