VAR

[West Side Charlie]

I'm not sure it's worth it anymore, spoils goal celebrations and I'm not sure they get more decisions right with it anyway. How long did they look at the Beto goal for, absolutely clinical examination trying to find anything to disallow it. So wrong

 

[Simo]

People power, anyone and everyone could just avoid going the next home game, see if that gets in the media. Or bring back the corrupt cards for the next televised fixture and display them all game so the media have no choice but to see them

 

[Jacko93]

I wish I knew how to do it, but is there any way in which you can track the betting markets at big moments.
Its just makes me think, in terms of value, where was it for the betting companies. Would they stand to make more off an Everton win, or a United win? Or, would a.draw have been perfect?

VAR gives a perfect opportunity to communicate with the on field referee and alter the outcome of the game depending on a fluctuating market. I would like to know just how much scrutiny and control the VAR staff are under while doing their jobs. Are they shielded from all other communication?

Also, separately to that I think that we can use image modification much better. The VAR shouldn't be watching the game at all until called upon, at which point the image that's supplied to them for assessment should be neutralised. Simply team A&B, player C&D. No distinct colours, or recognisable features. It could just as easily be a United penalty claim over an Everton one. I think this is the only way we would be able to remove conscious or unconscious bias. It also needs the referee to ask for assistance before they intervene, or utilise a manager request system as has been mentioned at few times.

 

[GoldenToffee]

I have to say, almost as much as the actual decision itself, the clubs failure to criticise it has annoyed me massively.

Just like when we rolled over and accepted the Premier League points deduction (and thanked them for it), this refusal or inability to challenge obviously biased and incorrect decisions will only go on to empower the Premier League, knowing Everton is a soft touch that can easily be made an example of.

Moyes annoyed me for not absolutely tearing into them, the club has annoyed me for not coming out with any kind of statement, and obviously the Premier League has annoyed me by not coming out and admitting their mistake.

 

[Bwana]

As it's used now, it's killing the atmosphere . However, it's the only thing standing in between the game and even more massive match fixing a'la https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calciopoli . I wouldn't be a bit surprised if something like that surfaces in the near future...

Rugby-style VAR and more rugby style implementing the rules also. Argue/give instructions to the ref as a player and you're out. Hell, I'd go for even more radical approach: You get caught diving, the player accused for fouling gets a free hit head/guts.

 

[badloaf]

I have to say, almost as much as the actual decision itself, the clubs failure to criticise it has annoyed me massively.

Just like when we rolled over and accepted the Premier League points deduction (and thanked them for it), this refusal or inability to challenge obviously biased and incorrect decisions will only go on to empower the Premier League, knowing Everton is a soft touch that can easily be made an example of.

Moyes annoyed me for not absolutely tearing into them, the club has annoyed me for not coming out with any kind of statement, and obviously the Premier League has annoyed me by not coming out and admitting their mistake.

I agree with you, but all of the clubs are part of the PL so none of them will kick up too much of a fuss because they want their share of the takings.

As we’ve seen with the points deductions, the lower teams in the league would rather attack each other than join together to fight the PL from within.

It’s not about footy, it’s all about money.

 

[PITA]

If the ref saw what actually happened and gave the penalty, it wouldn't have been overturned, because you can't say De Ligt didn't impede Young by pulling his shirt. But because the ref thought it was a different player, that's enabled them to jump through hoops to cancel the penalty. I can't see how this is what football would expect to happen in this case.

In short, there most likely was a foul and the ref gave a penalty, but he didn't make a clear and obvious error in not giving a penalty. Or something.

What I don't get is that if the ref doesn't give a pen then we would have made a fuss and the incident would have been 'looked at'. As they all are. Then they would have had to say 'Yes, it's a pen for the De Ligt offence'. But it seems that since the ref gave it for the perceived offence by Maguire they 'couldn't' look at the De Ligt offence. Is this interpretation correct?

 

[Timbucktoo]

What I don't get is that if the ref doesn't give a pen then we would have made a fuss and the incident would have been 'looked at'. As they all are. Then they would have had to say 'Yes, it's a pen for the De Ligt offence'. But it seems that since the ref gave it for the perceived offence by Maguire they 'couldn't' look at the De Ligt offence. Is this interpretation correct?

Not sure they couldn`t look at the De Ligt offense. The mistake they should have corrected was that the ref took it that Maguire pulled his shirt instead of De Ligt. The big controversy is that VAR seems to have repeatedly showed the ref the one camera view that didn`t show the shirt pull. Just more evidence that technology is only as good as the clown that`s operating it.

 

[NathDogg]

Not sure they couldn`t look at the De Ligt offense. The mistake they should have corrected was that the ref took it that Maguire pulled his shirt instead of De Ligt. The big controversy is that VAR seems to have repeatedly showed the ref the one camera view that didn`t show the shirt pull. Just more evidence that technology is only as good as the clown that`s operating it.

Remove the bent humans from all aspects of VAR, it would work fine.

No humans drawing lines - automate it, problem solved.

No human deciding what footage is shown to the on field ref - AI shows it all with no input/leading/coaching/discussion.

Improve the tech + remove people = remove corruption.

It’s one area I would champion AI being pushed & used more widely.

 

[blueblue]

I have to say, almost as much as the actual decision itself, the clubs failure to criticise it has annoyed me massively.

Just like when we rolled over and accepted the Premier League points deduction (and thanked them for it), this refusal or inability to challenge obviously biased and incorrect decisions will only go on to empower the Premier League, knowing Everton is a soft touch that can easily be made an example of.

Moyes annoyed me for not absolutely tearing into them, the club has annoyed me for not coming out with any kind of statement, and obviously the Premier League has annoyed me by not coming out and admitting their mistake.

Agreed, let us get fined for bringing the game into disrepute, it might highlight that the current system is bringing the game into disrepute far more than anything anyone from Everton could say.

If this decision had gone against and of the media favourites it would still be the major talking point on SKY but instead it has largely disappeared off the radar.

Of course that decision would result in a penalty 100% of the time for Utd, City, Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea.
We all know that if that incident had been in our box that the penalty would have stood and we wouldn't even be able to argue strongly against the decision.

 

[Neiler]

VAR is just symptom of the corruption in PL and Football.

There are probably about 300 mill Man U fans around the world - most probably paying a subscription - this game was on TV - you trying to tell me that, that revenue generator doesn't influence decisions and results......

Ill give you an example, Betos first goal they looked at it for 4 mins to try and find every angle every phase of play not to give it. Young penalty they showed the ref two angles.

We won there game from a sporting integrity point of view, but every passing year the league get more corrupt

 

[Simo]

VAR is just symptom of the corruption in PL and Football.

There are probably about 300 mill Man U fans around the world - most probably paying a subscription - this game was on TV - you trying to tell me that, that revenue generator doesn't influence decisions and results......

Ill give you an example, Betos first goal they looked at it for 4 mins to try and find every angle every phase of play not to give it. Young penalty they showed the ref two angles.

We won there game from a sporting integrity point of view, but every passing year the league get more corrupt

Exactly this... and I for one can't be ars3d to pay to watch it, to the point I'm seriously considering not getting a ST tbh. (Heads into the spares thread for west ham tix)

 

[JLW]

VAR is just symptom of the corruption in PL and Football.

There are probably about 300 mill Man U fans around the world - most probably paying a subscription - this game was on TV - you trying to tell me that, that revenue generator doesn't influence decisions and results......

Ill give you an example, Betos first goal they looked at it for 4 mins to try and find every angle every phase of play not to give it. Young penalty they showed the ref two angles.

We won there game from a sporting integrity point of view, but every passing year the league get more corrupt

Spot on this.

The Konate hand ball in the derby, did it even get looked at?

Ugarte awful challenge on Myko?

 

[degsy]

Remove the bent humans from all aspects of VAR, it would work fine.

No humans drawing lines - automate it, problem solved.

No human deciding what footage is shown to the on field ref - AI shows it all with no input/leading/coaching/discussion.

Improve the tech + remove people = remove corruption.

It’s one area I would champion AI being pushed & used more widely.

You're falling into, for want of a better phrase - The Martinez 'Philosophy' Paradox.

When His 'Philosophy' didn’t work...and it increasingly didnt...his go to solution was  More Philosophy.

The correct solution is not More tech

It's Less VAR

 

[Bryan+]

Remove the bent humans from all aspects of VAR, it would work fine.

No humans drawing lines - automate it, problem solved.

No human deciding what footage is shown to the on field ref - AI shows it all with no input/leading/coaching/discussion.

Improve the tech + remove people = remove corruption.

It’s one area I would champion AI being pushed & used more widely.

Correct. Fully automated VAR. it’s already in use. Why are we still relying on unconscious bias humans to do it?