Marcus Kendall
Player Valuation: £35m
Haven't they stopped booking players for diving now after realising they'd be booking half the Liverpool team each week?
NathDogg
Player Valuation: £60m
Errrrrmmmmm, we didn’t get “rewarded” - they overturned a cast iron penalty and even that wasn’t for Youngs “dive”.
Will Saturdays decision to rescind the pen mean no more diving from any team now…..
NathDogg
Player Valuation: £60m
It should have been a penalty though, you agree or no?
It was 50/50. Live I thought it very well could have been.
On replay, it's clear Young made a meal of it, and fell over once he knew he couldn't get to the ball (giving him benefit of the doubt - this is the equivalent of a grown man with momentum not running through an arm tackle, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt).
And the way he fell wasn't commensurate with the fouls
Like I said if that was given against us, it would be harsh. But yeah I think it's 50/50
NathDogg
Player Valuation: £60m
Yup, we’re in end of times.
It’s a penalty ffs. You’re saying Young should have ignored the shirt pulls and just been stronger…..Kinell.
If an Everton player commits that kind of foul in the box it’s not harsh, its a stupid challenge and it’s a pen to the opposition, or should be.
Take all the “clear and obvious” rubbish out, take the exaggeration from Young out (no problem with it btw), take the VAR corruption out, and just view the incident.
Is there a foul? Might not be Maguire, but there is a foul.
Is Young impeded/hindered unfairly from reaching the loose ball and having a goal scoring opportunity?
If that foul is committed outside the area would/should a free kick be given to Everton?
Can’t paint the picture any clearer, if people can’t see it we might as well pack in.
pfim
Player Valuation: £50m
The issue with this argument is if he doesn't do a Louganis, the penalty isn't called and it's not reviewed. I don't like it, but that's why players dive, because the fouls aren't being called.
Context is relevant though. The simple fact is you don't always get pens given for shirt pulls or the like. We can argue whether that's right or wrong, but we can't argue with the truth of it. I've definitely seen our players (Tarkowski in particular) pulling shirts this season, i've quite often been at games half expecting VAR to give a pen against us but they haven't. That means you can't really just use the 'there's a shirt pull so it's 1000% a pen, end of' line, because there are endless examples of them not being given.
For me it's a pen, but I don't think it's one where you can say it would be scandalous to not be given in real time. You said a few posts back that he was 'having his shirt ripped off his back' or something very similar, but in reality that's not the case is it? It was a tug, not a full on yanking back.
I mean this is a great point. Tarkowski being a great example for us. If you want to go letter of the law, he's fouling on 50% of corners. But the ref has to give some leeway to let men play a men's sport out there
pfim
Player Valuation: £50m
But again, that's why players dive. You start handing out penalties for shirt pulling, the shirt pulling will stop.
I'm not really defending them, but this is one of the biggest reasons why it's impossible to be a referee. What you're suggesting (and what they do) is just ignore some fouls and call others.
No argument there
NathDogg
Player Valuation: £60m
For me that’s the part of the issue, and why the water is muddied - why aren’t pulls given as penalties? They should be - I’m sick of screaming about holding and pulling on corners from all teams including us.
Context be damned, refs need to use their eyes and give what they see, and if they miss it that’s what VAR should be there for.
They should be (and nearly always are) given as fouls when committed outside the box, but something seems to go wrong when it happens inside the area - why?
I’ve just highlighted the bold above - the pen was given in real time, the ref called it right, but cited the wrong player. There was no need for VAR to get involved the way they did, and for not fully reviewing the entire footage screams of corruption.
Had he missed it, which I find hard to accept, then VAR would have reviewed all the footage and would have had to have given the penalty.
Im not getting into the semantics of how hard he was pulled and all that bollox - it’s a foul, it’s a pen, they need to give them more to stop this mitigation that some fans are willing to accept the corruption all to easily.
pfim
Player Valuation: £50m
I also think that the shirt pulling is often called when the player has a clear sight of the ball, as Ashley Young did in this case.
Do I think he gets there first? No, because his legs have been fossilized, but he certainly has a clear path to it and no one between him and the goal in that moment.
No I agree with the majority of that. I think you've misunderstood what I mean when I say context though, i'm not talking about context in the game, I'm talking about the context of them regularly not being given. Like I said, whether that or shouldn't be the case is a totally different argument, the context is that they aren't always given and ignoring that fact just frames the argument completely incorrectly. Again, I think it was a pen, but I am aware that the reality of the situation is shirt pulling isn't treated the same as lots of other offences are and so I don't think it would have been scandalous not to give it in real time. Put it this way, I've seen MUCH worse shirt pulls go unpunished this season.
