Us in the in liverpool end

[EFCNIK]

This is getting silly. It is only a game, it only was and only ever will be. Nothing is more important than showing respect to people who have lost their lives or family who have lost someone they will miss for the rest of theirs, whether you are from Kensington or Mars it matters not.

Chanting anything that could deeply upset someone who has lost a love one is a c*nts trick end of story

Is right.

Makes the Maggie chants even more unbelievable. Its only politics.

 

[RoryFitz9]

This is getting silly. It is only a game, it only was and only ever will be. Nothing is more important than showing respect to people who have lost their lives or family who have lost someone they will miss for the rest of theirs, whether you are from Kensington or Mars it matters not.

This.

 

[kenada_blue]

Mate i hate to try and educate you here, but do you know the origins of where that song came from and why it gets sung?

Of course and for us it has nothing to do with Hillsborough. But to even assume that Everton supporters would sing it in that context reflects on the mentality of your fans.

The fact we are arguably a better side the past 2 seasons, any excuse to show Everton in a bad light, no matter how scandalous or guttural it is, you lot will attempt to point the finger.

 

[steken1]

I'd just like to say thanks, and fair comments from everyone. and I totally understand some people's mindsets that some of our fan base will mindlessly get behind anything with a them against us attitude. I'm probably guilty as charged with that too for some things. But I'm going to copy and paste something I wrote on RAWK about Suarez affair and football in general, because I'm sick to f*cking death of it all at times -


"Look, I'm not going to blame anyone for spouting s*ite because the oxygen is a little thinner from up on their moral pulpit. But you know what? I actually don't give a flying [Poor language removed] that he bit Ivanovic. I don't give a flying sh*te what he called Evra any more. I couldn't give a shiney sh*te if he pulled Fabio's hair, dived like Tom Daley, stamped on some [Poor language removed]'s foot or anything else that he might be accused of. Do you know why I feel like this? It's certainly not because I don't possess basic morals and scruples; it's because football doesn't. They allow people to get away with all sorts of sh*te week in and week out. Calling someone a traditional cultural colloquialism is the same as calling someone a ****ing black [Poor language removed] in football's eyes. Homophobia is worth a fine, although homophobic tweeting in an intentional offensive way is worth only £7,000 while doing it as an in-joke, no matter how daft it was, between two friends is worth a £10,000 fine. A player slipping while he goes to make a tackle is worth a three game ban while a lad deliberately jumping two footed onto another player is ok because a ref didn't think it was all that bad. Stamping on a player's chest not seen by the ref but caught on youtube complete with slo-mo and a boss techno soundrack is not worth punishing, but it's worth 4 games if you're Mario Balotelli. A yellow card is sufficient for a bite or is it a 10 game ban? Football and all the governing bodies, not just the FA, are a simmering cesspool of f*cking s*ite, and it's time we stopped judging football by the same moral yardsticks of every day life. Do you honestly think whether we throw one of our own to the wolves or condemn another player from a team for kicking a ball boy, or just shrug our shoulders to it all, anything meaningful is going to change? Pandora has well and truly opened her box of football morality so I'll just treat it as a separate entity to normal life now. Money, 24 hour media, twitter and bloggers, it's all a f*cking pantomine these days and I'm seriously considering jacking it all in, because the whole f*cking shebang doesn't measure up to my personal standards of morality, so why should I bother picking and choosing what bits do?"

Utter tripe. You should be ashamed of yourself for even writing that after the post you did earlier!

 

[Del]

I'd just like to say thanks, and fair comments from everyone. and I totally understand some people's mindsets that some of our fan base will mindlessly get behind anything with a them against us attitude. I'm probably guilty as charged with that too for some things. But I'm going to copy and paste something I wrote on RAWK about Suarez affair and football in general, because I'm sick to f*cking death of it all at times -


"Look, I'm not going to blame anyone for spouting s*ite because the oxygen is a little thinner from up on their moral pulpit. But you know what? I actually don't give a flying [Poor language removed] that he bit Ivanovic. I don't give a flying sh*te what he called Evra any more. I couldn't give a shiney sh*te if he pulled Fabio's hair, dived like Tom Daley, stamped on some [Poor language removed]'s foot or anything else that he might be accused of. Do you know why I feel like this? It's certainly not because I don't possess basic morals and scruples; it's because football doesn't. They allow people to get away with all sorts of sh*te week in and week out. Calling someone a traditional cultural colloquialism is the same as calling someone a ****ing black [Poor language removed] in football's eyes. Homophobia is worth a fine, although homophobic tweeting in an intentional offensive way is worth only £7,000 while doing it as an in-joke, no matter how daft it was, between two friends is worth a £10,000 fine. A player slipping while he goes to make a tackle is worth a three game ban while a lad deliberately jumping two footed onto another player is ok because a ref didn't think it was all that bad. Stamping on a player's chest not seen by the ref but caught on youtube complete with slo-mo and a boss techno soundrack is not worth punishing, but it's worth 4 games if you're Mario Balotelli. A yellow card is sufficient for a bite or is it a 10 game ban? Football and all the governing bodies, not just the FA, are a simmering cesspool of f*cking s*ite, and it's time we stopped judging football by the same moral yardsticks of every day life. Do you honestly think whether we throw one of our own to the wolves or condemn another player from a team for kicking a ball boy, or just shrug our shoulders to it all, anything meaningful is going to change? Pandora has well and truly opened her box of football morality so I'll just treat it as a separate entity to normal life now. Money, 24 hour media, twitter and bloggers, it's all a f*cking pantomine these days and I'm seriously considering jacking it all in, because the whole f*cking shebang doesn't measure up to my personal standards of morality, so why should I bother picking and choosing what bits do?"

Hahahaha Jesus its like being transported to RAWK

You missed out "Crying and shaking here lad" "Conspirezys" and "It waz Chelsea"

Keep blaming everyone else except the main culprit Suarez

ALWAYS THE VICTIM

 

[Jeff Jones]

I was about 9 when Heysel happened. I'd been to plenty of matches by that point so had some sense of footy was like in the mid-80s but no I wasn't running around with a stanley knife. Short of someone overseeing a big investigation into the whole thing I don't really think anyone is going to be more qualified to be honest. If you were in the middle of those goings on in the 80s then you'd have a first hand view but it would undoubtedly be biased by your personal experiences wouldn't it?

I have never seen any stats to show that Liverpool fans were any worse than any other teams in the 80s. Perhaps you have?

Likewise there's plenty of evidence from what went on at the 1984 final to show that the Italians weren't saints either.

The stadium should have been condemned and was not fit to host any match of that magnitude. Given that fact and the history above I think it's very reasonable to just be very glad that Everton were not in that match on that day.

Off topic here, I know, but as it's been raised I'm going to say that the condition of that stadium had **** all to do with what occurred. It probably was decrepit but it would have been OK if all of the people in attendance had behaved in a civilised manner.



.

 

[Jeff Jones]

Nail on the head mate.Like it or not Dell Boy Liverpool FC have blood on their hands over what happened that night.Of course the vast majority of Liverpool fans are decent people and we all have friends who are kopites but what happened that night happened.39 innocent Juventus fans lost their lives due to the behavior of Liverpool fans.

So, why blame Liverpool FC? There was an element of random support in attendance who may have been responsible to a degree for what occurred, but I don't think the club they supported could be held to account. I'm being careful - I hope - not to scandalise anybody who may not have been responsible

Getting a bit political here, but I was alive and well in 1985 and I think I have a good grasp of what happened.

 

[Chang Elephant]

Got to admire Evertonians really - willing to tolerate sundry cult members coming on here to "educate" us with paragraphs of ****ing waffle saying zilch in real terms. Easy to se how Kenwright got the Kirkby vote through.

 

[Jeff Jones]

Got to admire Evertonians really - willing to tolerate sundry cult members coming on here to "educate" us with paragraphs of ****ing waffle saying zilch in real terms. Easy to se how Kenwright got the Kirkby vote through.

I hope you're not including me in that group of Evertonians who you feel should be admired for his tolerance

I've dismissed their posters feeble attempt to blame the state of the stadium for the result of the violence, and I've placed the blame entirely with those in the crowd who were responsible for it. I tried to choose my words carefully so as to not apportion
blame to the innocent. The guilty can rot in hell and they know who they are.

 

[EFC Si]

I'd just like to say thanks, and fair comments from everyone. and I totally understand some people's mindsets that some of our fan base will mindlessly get behind anything with a them against us attitude. I'm probably guilty as charged with that too for some things. But I'm going to copy and paste something I wrote on RAWK about Suarez affair and football in general, because I'm sick to f*cking death of it all at times -


"Look, I'm not going to blame anyone for spouting s*ite because the oxygen is a little thinner from up on their moral pulpit. But you know what? I actually don't give a flying [Poor language removed] that he bit Ivanovic. I don't give a flying sh*te what he called Evra any more. I couldn't give a shiney sh*te if he pulled Fabio's hair, dived like Tom Daley, stamped on some [Poor language removed]'s foot or anything else that he might be accused of. Do you know why I feel like this? It's certainly not because I don't possess basic morals and scruples; it's because football doesn't. They allow people to get away with all sorts of sh*te week in and week out. Calling someone a traditional cultural colloquialism is the same as calling someone a ****ing black [Poor language removed] in football's eyes. Homophobia is worth a fine, although homophobic tweeting in an intentional offensive way is worth only £7,000 while doing it as an in-joke, no matter how daft it was, between two friends is worth a £10,000 fine. A player slipping while he goes to make a tackle is worth a three game ban while a lad deliberately jumping two footed onto another player is ok because a ref didn't think it was all that bad. Stamping on a player's chest not seen by the ref but caught on youtube complete with slo-mo and a boss techno soundrack is not worth punishing, but it's worth 4 games if you're Mario Balotelli. A yellow card is sufficient for a bite or is it a 10 game ban? Football and all the governing bodies, not just the FA, are a simmering cesspool of f*cking s*ite, and it's time we stopped judging football by the same moral yardsticks of every day life. Do you honestly think whether we throw one of our own to the wolves or condemn another player from a team for kicking a ball boy, or just shrug our shoulders to it all, anything meaningful is going to change? Pandora has well and truly opened her box of football morality so I'll just treat it as a separate entity to normal life now. Money, 24 hour media, twitter and bloggers, it's all a f*cking pantomine these days and I'm seriously considering jacking it all in, because the whole f*cking shebang doesn't measure up to my personal standards of morality, so why should I bother picking and choosing what bits do?"

Macca I've enjoyed most of your involvement on here and you seem like a good guy, but how can you go from posting a genuinely fantastic post re heysel and the other issues mentioned, to posting that ridiculous statement?

Come on mate, he's a serial offender and was warned for future conduct. It's not the FA that's the problem it's Luis Suarez. Pointing the finger at everyone or anyone else but him.

 

[paulbefc]

You're preaching to the converted though. I was trying to answer a question on behalf of someone that I don't even know on why they might be offended. Every proper red that I know knows the score concerning proper blues. I'm not trying to score points by telling you why they might be offended, I'm trying to think of reasons why they might be, not to justify it. F*cks sake, I've said already half my family are blue so I've got no particular truck with you except twice a year. The problem seems to be one of generalisations. A few people complain that it's about Hillsborough, and suddenly its "you lot said it's about Hillsborough", a few people said Suarez wasn't wrong to bite and suddenly "none of you lot will accept that he's a ****", Patrice Evra and the FA went out of their way to categorically state that he was not a racist and suddenly it's "you f*ckers won't even have it that he's a dirty racist." I gave an honest answer about why I couldn't give a [Poor language removed] about all things FA and football related and it's "you lot on RAWK" I wasn't speaking on behalf of RAWK, I'm speaking as someone who said he's a cock for doing what he did and should have had a 6 game ban, but I'm sick to the back teeth of the FA not standing by their own precedent, which was a 5 game ban. I also admitted being a hypocrite and saying that if he played for anyone else, I'd have happily seen him banned for longer. The biggest hypocrites of all are the ones who can't even admit to it. Loads of people have claimed that if Suarez played for them, they'd want him sold or banned for life. I'm sorry, I'm not having it for one second. It's easier to be holier than thou when it's someone else's player. when it's your own though, you have double standards. It's not a conspiracy to say that the FA are bumbling f*ckwits. Better men than me in football and journalism think they are too. do I think everything is a Manc conspiracy? Maybe if I was 11 in the head. To be honest if anyone thinks some sad tw*t on facebook or a forum is representative of the matchgoing support, then they're very much mistaken. I'm not representative of anyone. My views are my own. If anyone agrees with them it makes them just as much a cynical fed up f*cker as me, not joined to me by the hip in a big conspiracy.

I know you were attempting to explain why some kopites use that song as a reason to attack match going Evertonians who time and time again act with class in the memorial services and shows of respect to the victims in a way you don't see between many if any other clubs. I didn't say it was your belief. You're wrong though. They know damn well it's not about Hillsborough and that is not a huge generalisation of your fans. Unless the vast majority of your support are thick enough to believe it is about Hillsborough. It's simply used as a tool to by reds to score points on a moral level. Football fans do it all the time, but to do it on this subject is tragic. It's not just a few Liverpool fans either.

Normally generalisations of fans aren't very reliable, no, but a silly amount of your fans have this spoilt child attitude and use it to deflect attention from your own club's shortcomings. Your gripes and exasperation are with the wrong f*cking people. Suarez has dragged your club through the mud at times, helped in no small part by the likes of king Kenneth. Suarez racially abused Evra. Not the FA. You take whatever ban he gets for something like that and you make sure he knows he's a prick for it so it doesn't happen again. In reality, the whole of Anfield sang the [Poor language removed]'s name every five minutes for the duration of his ban. I could probably write an essay on how hilarious that whole affair was, but I can't be arsed and it'd be in one ear and out the other anyway.

 

[EFC Si]

Hahahaha Jesus its like being transported to RAWK

You missed out "Crying and shaking here lad" "Conspirezys" and "It waz Chelsea"

Keep blaming everyone else except the main culprit Suarez

ALWAYS THE VICTIM

Spot on Del. The thing is, he actually laughs in the face of his captain, manager and fans when he does stuff like this, despite the relentless support you all show for him. What's he actually go to do for you to realise it's HIM at the root of all these problems? I'm genuinely interested to know...

 

[macca888]

I hope you're not including me in that group of Evertonians who you feel should be admired his tolerance

I've dismissed their posters feeble attempt to blame the state of the stadium for the result of the violence, and I've placed the blame entirely with those in the crowd who were responsible for it. I tried to choose my words carefully so as to not apportion
blame to the innocent. The guilty can rot in hell and they know who they are.

I never once made a feeble attempt to blame the state of the stadium for the dickheads who were fighting, and I would never ever make excuses or attempt to remove any blame for the Liverpool fans who were responsible. But the RESULT of the violence, 39 people dying, was directly related to the state of the stadium. That's not just semantics; the missiles that were being flung were the concrete off the terrace steps because it was crumbling like [Poor language removed]. Where do you think the missiles that were getting lashed came from? In nearly forty years of going the match, I've seen people carrying some things in their pockets to lash at the oppo's, I've seen people tooled up outside the ground with all sorts of daft f*cking things, but I've never seen anyone ever carry a bag of f*cking rubble to throw at people. The wall that collapsed happened because the cement was perished. The segregation fencing was that poor quality, it was literally ripped out by hand. The structural investigations of the crowd by both Belgian and English architects concluded that the ground was a disgrace and should never have had a safety certificate. The ground itself was described as an accident waiting to happen. That's not me making excuses or trying to shift the blame, it's trying to provide context to people who don't know any of the facts.

Some things I've said seem to be getting interpreted as excuses. Let me say this loud and clearly for anyone who might not understand me, I will not make excuses for those people at the match responsible for what happened to 39 innocent people. Ever. They can carry it to their grave and they can f*cking rot in hell. But that doesn't give anyone the right to blame everyone else who supports Liverpool for what happened.


As for everything else, I'm out of here now so you can say whatever you want about me. I've tried to be respectful to everyone here and i think I have been, which is more than what can be said for some of your members. I get it, it's your forum, your rules. And I'm not even going to lie and say if one of you came on RAWK you'd get treated any differently, because you probably would because we've got our fair share of tools too. It seems we've got an equal amount of stupid f*cking teds on both halves of the city's supporters.

If people read what I posted as an individual rather than trying to cattle herd me into some stereotype of what you think RAWK members or Liverpool supporters are, there'd at least be a chance of a bit of better banter and discussion. I post something about not giving a [Poor language removed] about football morality and get shot down as a RAWK conspiracy, when I've gone to great lengths to blame Suarez for what happened. I never once said it was anyone other than him, I said he was guilty, I said I had double standards but I also said I don't give a [Poor language removed] about the whole shebang any more. Getting pulled for something I've said is one thing, getting pulled for something I've explicitly not said is f*cking insane though. But if you don't want to at least meet me half way and at least read and try to understand what I'm saying without any preconceived ****e about RAWK or Liverpool, then there's no point. Every you claim you make about us, we'll counter it with something because we all support our own. For every Duncan Ferguson we complain about, you've got a Luis Suarez. For every bite off Suarez, you've got as Fellaini butt. For every Suarez is a f*cking bad racist la, I can give you examples of racist chanting from your head, and believe me, as one of the only kids in Walton with a mixed race dad at the time, that was f8cking hard to deal with. But Ferguson, Fellaini, and other historical sh*te don't define you lot as much as murderers, victims and anything else you want to throw at me defines me. But on and on it will always go, we'll always be the Red Sh*te and you'll always be the bitters, because hundreds of thousands of f*cking bells on an internet can't be wrong can they?

I'm sure like on RAWK, there's a load of decent lads on here. Same as at the match where there's loads of decent people with a minority of utter f*cking cocks. I've genuinely enjoyed meeting some of the decent ones on here, of which there are many, and I'm sure you'd be decent people in real life too. I don't have to agree with you to think you're decent, I just have to accept and respect that you've got a completely different perspective than mine. I've tried to treat every single one of you as an individual and if I haven't succeeded than I can only apologise, but if I have, you're welcome.

 

[Jeff Jones]

Read what you wrote. You talked about the decrepit state of the Stadium. Why? We've been hearing it for years.
I've never been able to work out what it has to do with what occurred.

 

[paulbefc]

As for everything else, I'm out of here now so you can say whatever you want about me. I've tried to be respectful to everyone here and i think I have been, which is more than what can be said for some of your members. I get it, it's your forum, your rules. And I'm not even going to lie and say if one of you came on RAWK you'd get treated any differently, because you probably would because we've got our fair share of tools too. It seems we've got an equal amount of stupid f*cking teds on both halves of the city's supporters.

If people read what I posted as an individual rather than trying to cattle herd me into some stereotype of what you think RAWK members or Liverpool supporters are, there'd at least be a chance of a bit of better banter and discussion. I post something about not giving a [Poor language removed] about football morality and get shot down as a RAWK conspiracy, when I've gone to great lengths to blame Suarez for what happened. I never once said it was anyone other than him, I said he was guilty, I said I had double standards but I also said I don't give a [Poor language removed] about the whole shebang any more. Getting pulled for something I've said is one thing, getting pulled for something I've explicitly not said is f*cking insane though. But if you don't want to at least meet me half way and at least read and try to understand what I'm saying without any preconceived ****e about RAWK or Liverpool, then there's no point. Every you claim you make about us, we'll counter it with something because we all support our own. For every Duncan Ferguson we complain about, you've got a Luis Suarez. For every bite off Suarez, you've got as Fellaini butt. For every Suarez is a f*cking bad racist la, I can give you examples of racist chanting from your head, and believe me, as one of the only kids in Walton with a mixed race dad at the time, that was f8cking hard to deal with. But Ferguson, Fellaini, and other historical sh*te don't define you lot as much as murderers, victims and anything else you want to throw at me defines me. But on and on it will always go, we'll always be the Red Sh*te and you'll always be the bitters, because hundreds of thousands of f*cking bells on an internet can't be wrong can they?

I'm sure like on RAWK, there's a load of decent lads on here. Same as at the match where there's loads of decent people with a minority of utter f*cking cocks. I've genuinely enjoyed meeting some of the decent ones on here, of which there are many, and I'm sure you'd be decent people in real life too. I don't have to agree with you to think you're decent, I just have to accept and respect that you've got a completely different perspective than mine. I've tried to treat every single one of you as an individual and if I haven't succeeded than I can only apologise, but if I have, you're welcome.

You've been respectful and have had reasoned debate. I wouldn't be adverse to you sticking around, even if you are a kopite from RAWK (which is saying something). But I think some of the people you're referring to as tools are making fair points and often it's easy to misunderstand long posts on the internet.

On the Suarez post though, read it back ffs. Seriously. You say you don't care about any of Suarez' antics and then immediately say the reason why is the FA getting some bans wrong in your opinion. Maybe you should just take into account that you're biased as hell as you're a Liverpool fan and he's your best player. You want every ban to match up to your "personal standards of morality". That sounds completely insane. This is why we and a lot of other fans around the country laugh at RAWK.

Basically, you were just sick of people talking about Suarez and your club negatively (which was all his/it's own fault). It's not about football as a whole at all really, is it? Come on.