Current Affairs Ukraine

[peteblue]

Good article….

Russia is no longer the dominant power in Eastern Europe

Whatever happens, the combined efforts of the former Soviet states have destroyed the idea of Russian military preeminence

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[roydo]

The proverbial faeces will hit the fan if it's found to be an attack by Ukraine, or at least those who favour them, in the heart of Russia - <100miles from Moscow.

In fact, it'll probably cause mayhem regardless.

Could be just a fire. I mean other than the flames, there doesnt seem to be any other damage. Even the windows seem intact.

 

[peteblue]

Could be just a fire. I mean other than the flames, there doesnt seem to be any other damage. Even the windows seem intact.

Who knows. But Russia wants to ‘liberate’ Russian speakers, the problem being that a good number of these will support Ukraine and absolutely detest Russia…..

 

[Lobster Johnson]

Who knows. But Russia wants to ‘liberate’ Russian speakers, the problem being that a good number of these will support Ukraine and absolutely detest Russia…..

Liberating a town 100km from Moscow ought to be a doddle.

 

[PhilM]

Could be just a fire. I mean other than the flames, there doesnt seem to be any other damage. Even the windows seem intact.

It could be.

Ideally, it'd probably be the best scenario with damage done to sensitive institute that will potentially impact on their R&D without Ukraine being blamed.

Therefore it may be simply a coincidence, but conjecture may suggest there'll be a link. If there is, Russia will be furious for a multitude of reasons.

If there isn't a link between the incident and the war, it may well play in to Russia's hands to suggest a link to help legitimise future or more intensive attacks.

Well, if the Kremlin can allow the impression and ignominy of Ukraine hitting a key institution in their heartland to be swallowed - it's massive if they have.

 

[davmaher]

The proverbial faeces will hit the fan if it's found to be an attack by Ukraine, or at least those who favour them, in the heart of Russia - <100miles from Moscow.

In fact, it'll probably cause mayhem regardless.

Are Ukraine not allowed to attack Russian positions now?

 

[orchard]

Are Ukraine not allowed to attack Russian positions now?

No, but Salisbury's fair game if you pay a Tory for a game of tennis or something.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

The proverbial faeces will hit the fan if it's found to be an attack by Ukraine, or at least those who favour them, in the heart of Russia - <100miles from Moscow.

In fact, it'll probably cause mayhem regardless.

False flag?

 

[PhilM]

Are Ukraine not allowed to attack Russian positions now?

You've misconstrued my point. Whether we feel Ukraine can legitimately attack Russian territory or not is irrelevant. For clarity, I've no moral issue with it at all.

The issue is how Russia could construe such an attack; you can see it already: non-military (quasi-military really) target hit; heartland of Russia; terrorism.

So the point is how Russia respond to such an attack, if it is one or they attempted to portray it as one. Let's not forget what Russia have said repeatedly...

And the fourth case is when an act of aggression is committed against Russia and its allies, which jeopardised the existence of the country itself, even without the use of nuclear weapons, that is, with the use of conventional weapons

That's their proclaimed right to use nuclear weapons, which they have mentioned several times. Russia do not take kindly to attacks on their soil.

Therefore, my point is not to criticise any such attack (if it is one), but rather suggest potential repercussions when you consider previous response to attacks.

False flag?

Maybe. Who knows? If it is an attack by the Ukrainians or someone supporting their cause / not supporting the war, it's ballsy to say the least.

I have doubts about the false flag parts however because A) there's more convenient / softer targets that'll do the job and B) it'll be seen as a faux pas.

An attack close to Moscow by those pesky Ukrainians? It doesn't portray them very well if you get my gist. Why not blow up a hospital near the border etc?

 

[Wizard]

Don’t wish to stereotype but Greek culture has been suffering from an inferiority complex for the past 2300 years; nearly every strong man culture (Macedonian, Celtic, Roman, Gothic, Islamic, Crusader, Turkish, British, Imperial Russian, Nazi / Fascist, Soviet, EU and now Putinist) finds adherents who want to use whatever it is to bring back the glory days of Greece before wiser heads point out that it’s rubbish and try to bring about genuine independence for Greece.

You’re going to have to expand on this because it comes across as complete drivel. The Macedons were Greek at the time. The Turkish constantly tried to wipe us out and destroyed the most famous monument in Greece. The Italian fascists tried to conquer us. The British stole our monuments. And more importantly we still have a very strong Greek culture. I might have got you wrong but there is no inferiority complex amongst Greeks and you can’t randomly claim it goes back 2300 years

 

[stipe]

There is old quote of President Nixon i seen posted elsewhere

"Only European nation Russia really fears is Germany"

But not this version of Germany, they are very, very reluctant to do anything, especially in military means like sending weapons

 

[PhilM]

There is old quote of President Nixon i seen posted elsewhere

"Only European nation Russia really fears is Germany"

But not this version of Germany, they are very, very reluctant to do anything, especially in military means like sending weapons

To a greater or lesser extent, understandably so. The weight of Bismarck, Ludendorff, Hindenburg, Hitler and co. isn't something easy to shrug off.

The Prussian dynasties with their militaristic ways brought chaos to Europe and eventually led to Germany's destruction, or at least as they knew it.

You can see similarities with Japan and how they became insular post-45 with a reluctance to engage. Part of it constitutional of course, but it's deeper than that.

It's rightly difficult to look past their terrible deeds and underpinning bigotry, but to some extent I've still always respected pre and post 1945 Germany.

The country is still a brilliant one and could be an even more powerful national than it already is economically although perhaps it's right that they're not.

For Germany to get really involved with wars and directly support others may be seen as a slippery slope for those inside - a risk too far you may say.

But then again, many of those cultural norms of the past aren't there any more.

 

[Martin Alvito]

I'm not too sure the US had another couple or 4 nukes actually ready to go post Aug 1945.
Yalta not withstanding, or that there was the western will to keep on to Moscow and the weather then was all down hill for a Russian winter.
1945-46 and 1946-47 were two very harsh winters all over Europe as well.
File under Harry Turtledove; possible, but not very probable

We had at least one nuke ready to go with Tokyo's name on it.

The will to continue the fight did not exist, which is why we got Kennan's policy of containment rather than a drive on Moscow. We also sat the Chinese Civil War out due to a lack of political will, which combined with MacArthur's blunder (in defiance of Truman's orders) gave us Korea instead.

 

[stipe]

To a greater or lesser extent, understandably so. The weight of Bismarck, Ludendorff, Hindenburg, Hitler and co. isn't something easy to shrug off.

The Prussian dynasties with their militaristic ways brought chaos to Europe and eventually led to Germany's destruction, or at least as they knew it.

You can see similarities with Japan and how they became insular post-45 with a reluctance to engage. Part of it constitutional of course, but it's deeper than that.

It's rightly difficult to look past their terrible deeds and underpinning bigotry, but to some extent I've still always respected pre and post 1945 Germany.

The country is still a brilliant one and could be an even more powerful national than it already is economically although perhaps it's right that they're not.

For Germany to get really involved with wars and directly support others may be seen as a slippery slope for those inside - a risk too far you may say.

But then again, many of those cultural norms of the past aren't there any more.

I do wonder how would history look like if it was Austrian Habsburgs that unified Germany, instead super militaristic and efficient Prussians, after all they were old leaders of German world before Bismarck displaced Austria with his wars.

Unlike Prussians, famed for their efficiency, discipline and organization, old Habsburg Austria was always chaotic thing, 12 plus different languages with incredibly complicated beaurocracy. Wonder how would their version of Germany look like.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Are Ukraine not allowed to attack Russian positions now?

TBH, I am very surpised the Ukes have not taken it to Russian territory a lot more. They have weapons and could easily get in and out, blow up some important things and do one, back in time for tea.