Current Affairs Ukraine

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One of the dangers in using economic means to do things of course, can’t really complain when someone does it back to you.
I have to agree if it were China. But the Russian's don't have that big stick to weld in finance. Energy is a different story with mainly Germany and Italy to go through some growing pains in the next decade to wean themselves of it. The West have been preparing for decades for an event like this.
 
What I find baffling is the fact that Russia is the biggest country on earth and has one of the lowest population densities. Why can't they just concentrate on what they've already got and try to make it better.
Ukraine has massive food and energy potential. Although what will be left after this abomination...
 
There is no way you can lay this at Zelenskiyys feet. What sort of leader would bow to the bullying demands he was given? I am really surprised that anyone can think he has handled this badly. If he had done as Putin asked. then it would be one of the other former soviet states under attack now,All kudosto the big Zman big for taking it to Russia, lord knows if it had been you in charge there would be no Ukraine any more.
I’m not laying this at Zelenskyy’s feet. I am not blaming him or Ukraine for this war. This is Russia’s doing. I do, however, feel that there has been a layer of diplomacy missed somewhere along the way which could have resulted in far fewer people being killed. The only way this war will end is with negotiations and diplomacy. Could this not have been explored in more detail to begin with?
 
Yep, two minds at to whether it was good or not! Interesting though. Lake Baikal is a must. Went in the middle of winter but the train was sweltering hot!
Traveled a bit in that region, from China up in to Mongolia. Had planned to go further north to Baikal but met a lot of travelers coming down in to Mongolia who said, while lake Baikal was beautiful, the hassle of traveling in Russia, constantly checking in with police etc, mad it not worth while. So it was either deal with Russian bureaucracy to get to lake Baikal or head south and deal with Chinese bureaucracy and go to Tibet. Went to Tibet (a crazy train trip!).
Hopefully one day the regime will change and it will be easier to make the trip. I've also been to Estonia but not St. Petersburg, another place I'd like to visit.
 
I’m not laying this at Zelenskyy’s feet. I am not blaming him or Ukraine for this war. This is Russia’s doing. I do, however, feel that there has been a layer of diplomacy missed somewhere along the way which could have resulted in far fewer people being killed. The only way this war will end is with negotiations and diplomacy. Could this not have been explored in more detail to begin with?
The only diplomacy putin would hear would be control of Ukraine. No effin way should zelinskyy give an inch to that murderous c***
 
The farmers will do alright. They’ve moved into the global scrap metal business.
I had to stop myself doing a LOL because this is so tragic. So sad to hear daily of innocent people dying.

Ukraine always the breadbasket of Russia. It also was a rich source of oil. I don't know how much reserves are left. It was why Hitler turned south when Moscow was in his grasp.
 
The only diplomacy putin would hear would be control of Ukraine. No effin way should zelinskyy give an inch to that murderous c***
I’m not sure if that’s the case or not, but then it seems the only way this will end without diplomacy is if NATO do become aggressive and get involved, because there’s no way Putin will stop until he’s got what he wants.
 
I’m not laying this at Zelenskyy’s feet. I am not blaming him or Ukraine for this war. This is Russia’s doing. I do, however, feel that there has been a layer of diplomacy missed somewhere along the way which could have resulted in far fewer people being killed. The only way this war will end is with negotiations and diplomacy. Could this not have been explored in more detail to begin with?
Mate I don't think Putin gives a FF about diplomacy.

Maybe Zelensky is not whiter than white but then neither am I.

Bombing civilians including kids is horrendous.
 
Mate I don't think Putin gives a FF about diplomacy.

Maybe Zelensky is not whiter than white but then neither am I.

Bombing civilians including kids is horrendous.
See I think he does. I think he will have a position which he would meet to end this, whether it be assurances on NATO, Crimea, whatever. I don’t know what they are, but I reckon he probably would bend somewhere along the line. My view is that if something can be reached, or could have been reached, to save thousands of lives and give the West some breathing room to plan its next move then it should be.

Ultimately, western countries now have to try to appease a dictator who has shown he will use all out war to get what he wants, otherwise they engage in warfare. Nobody wants the second option, it’s about how far they’re willing to go on the first.
 
I have to agree if it were China. But the Russian's don't have that big stick to weld in finance. Energy is a different story with mainly Germany and Italy to go through some growing pains in the next decade to wean themselves of it. The West have been preparing for decades for an event like this.

I really do not think that we have, in fact quite the opposite. People need gas and oil and the past decades have proved that the West is prepared to do, or overlook, almost anything to keep them flowing. We've massively corrupted the world economic system, our laws, our politics and our societies to keep it flowing; we've even left two big holes in our sanctions regime to allow it to keep flowing (no EU ban on Russian energy supplies, but also as Piketty pointed out yesterday no work to clean up money laundering).

Also I don't think this is aimed at those two countries; if anything this is aimed at fracturing the EU and NATO with countries like Hungary facing costs over gas etc (as well as housing more refugees than their government thinks is acceptable) that they are not helped with by the countries that are better off. This should be countered with more solidarity, but I think there is a very good chance people will try to look to their own (again).
 
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