Current Affairs Ukraine

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm just glad that there's no one better @peteblue

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Revealed: Russian donors have stepped up Tory funding

As Johnson accused of ‘cover-up’ over Kremlin interference, major new Russian donations to Conservatives revealed – despite previous Tory pledge to distance themselves from Russian money.

www.opendemocracy.net

 

[Bruce Wayne]

But yes, @peteblue, what on earth does Corbyn think?

 

[Kev The Rat]

Notwithstanding the recent “barrage” of trade sanctions, we surely need to do stuff that also gets the immediate attention of Joe Comrade on the Moscow omnibus.

There’s plenty of anti Putin sentiment in Russia, they don’t all buy that warrior posturing. Making it clear that they will all be hit because Putin is bang out of order should be a priority.

I doubt many Muscovites went down the Hammer and Sickle recently for a jar and ranted on that an invasion of Ukraine was well overdue.

Places on the med and further afield are heaving with Russians in the summer.

Banning all Russian passport holders from travelling internationally would seem like a simple way to start.

Suspending all flights to and from Russia also seems like another reasonable step to further isolate them as a pariah state.

Lots of other options particularly sport related, whereby they should just be lobbed out of every international competition immediately.

Putin seems like a guy with a hefty ego who wants to protect himself and also establish a legacy. Undermining his credibility with his own people would seem a good place to start.

A lot of what you are saying there would be an official violation of human rights, let alone the impossibility given ongoing trade/business concerns.

And even if you did it, I am not sure you would get the kind of negative internal reaction you desire due to the oppressive nature of what would be seen as 'western' punishment.

Russians domestically tend to keep their powder dry over matters such as these, there is no widespread, or even minor discontent over this likely invasion. Any provocation is viewed as western determined.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I'm just glad that there's no one better @peteblue

At some point the you'd hope the public might start realising that talking tough without backing it up, threatening to ignore/saying international law doesn't apply to you and treating serious issues as a joke aren't the actions of a competent Government and have very real consequences home and abroad.

 

[Kev The Rat]

At some point the you'd hope the public might start realising that talking tough without backing it up, threatening to ignore/saying international law doesn't apply to you and treating serious issues as a joke aren't the actions of a competent Government and have very real consequences home and abroad.

well troops arent going in, so what do you propose?

 

[tsubaki]

At some point the you'd hope the public might start realising that talking tough without backing it up, threatening to ignore/saying international law doesn't apply to you and treating serious issues as a joke aren't the actions of a competent Government and have very real consequences home and abroad.

Just fixing the mess here, in terms of dark money, money laundering and whatnot would be a huge start.

 

[FrenchDarrenBent]

Err, no. The Kingdom of Bohemia was established in the 12th century

Kingdom of Bohemia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The region was German speaking because it was part of the Austro-Hungarian empire, so German was widely spoken. Famous Czechs, like Kafka for instance, wrote primarily in German for that reason. That didn't make him German and apart from Henlein and his cronies, few in CZ wanted the region to become part of Germany.

Well I'm talking specifcally about Sudentland & the German annexation. Sudentenland wasn't called Sudetenland before the 20th century, it also included a piece of Silesia, if I remember correctly.... A full history of Bohemia was never my scope.

The etno-cultural problem is older than Nazis and Henlein however, Franz Ferdinand had plans to seperate the two regions before the first world war in order to create two homogenous nations. If memory serves I think they even had seperate school systems. It's wasn't a trivial matter.

Discussions about including the region into Germany post 1918 were held at Versailles, but ultimately that specific region was included in Checho-Slowakia. It came back up at Locarno in 1925 (Versailles was held without the germans) but it was clear back then that this region would remain problematic for years to come.

It wasn’t. I did a nice study on the Anschluss for my masters, so when I’ve finished my shift I’ll throw some points in a post. And Austria-Hungry is not and wasn’t German in the modern sense.

Where did I state Austria-Hungary was part of Germany or the HRR or any other form of German state?

I know I'm not nuanced. It's one sentence and I was tired. However, I'm pretty sure the regime was generally supported & never really contested in a way more significant than the resistence within Germany itself.

Austria - Anschluss, WWII, Nazis | Britannica

Austria - Anschluss, WWII, Nazis: Though the Austrian crisis had taken him unaware, Hitler acted with energy and speed. Mussolini’s neutrality was assured, there was a ministerial crisis in France, and the British government had made it known for some time that it would not oppose the union of...

www.britannica.com

However, both of you are ignoring my point though:

How is refering to complicated historical questions in a debate about how to tackle/react to Putin in any way relevant? How is it not simplistic? It's a weak argument.
How can you justify/propose actions for our modern leaders referring to the Anschluss or Sudetenland? Two entirely different cases, both generally peaceful & without guns fired. That's what @ClausThomsen original post was about.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

this is yes satire....that being said hmmmm

It goes something like this!

 

[Blue 1]

Putin thinks its a works do. Just paintballing that got a bit out of hand. You see tanks at those kind of things all the time.

 

[Jebus_lives]

well troops arent going in, so what do you propose?

Firm and swift all out nuclear assault.

 

[Kev The Rat]

Moving back to military strategy, it appears Putin has a potential 'in' via the Black Sea and Odessa with the fleet he has amassed there.

That would be the southern entry point. The north would be handled with the access provided by Belarus, and centrally smash through Donetsk.

 

[Charro]

Moving back to military strategy, it appears Putin has a potential 'in' via the Black Sea and Odessa with the fleet he has amassed there.

That would be the southern entry point. The north would be handled with the access provided by Belarus, and centrally smash through Donetsk.

Alright colonel Kurtz

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Kev.

When you chat myopic bobbins in the NFL thread it's relatively harmless and mildly amusing. When you do it in this thread however, it makes you look like a complete and utter fool.

If memory serves, didn't the West / NATO / some similar group convince Ukraine to abandon any nuclear ambitions by pledging to guarantee their borders and sovereignty? Can someone please confirm if I am remembering this correctly, or if I'm thinking of a different country entirely.

Budapest Memorandum.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Good to see that GOTs expertise covers geopolitics, military strategy and marital social norms in Eastern Europe.