Current Affairs Ukraine

[Toffeepot]

It's realpolitik not morality.

Look at this from the Guardian this morning:



Thats a people looking desperately for a way out of this war. They know their own government have gambled and lost and now they must accept the reality of defeat and loss of territory.

They're not going to get NATO membership, btw, but there's no stomach for the fight anymore. They've given up their lives for 3 years and many of their families and friends too.

It's all politics and daft kids on social media who want this war to carry on NOT the people who live in Ukraine. They want a deal...almost any deal that stops this carnage and hands them back their lives.

I take your point that war weariness has of course set in, but Putin doesn't just want the Donbas region. Pretty sure if Russians were legitimately polled they would also want an end to it, with/without the land grab. They don't get a choice though, and it amazes me how easily you would hand the Dictator what he wants and criticise the Ukranian government for trying to defend their homeland. The Ukranians definitely do not want 'almost any deal', because that includes the possibility of living under Putin's regime, and they were asked about economic reconstruction plus EU and NATO membership. That is a very specific hypothetical deal.

As for your Realpolitik, would you say the same if it was the UK under the yoke?

 

[Xizor]

It's realpolitik not morality.

 

[Rita_Poon]

why do Ukrainian kids count more than russian kids all of a sudden?

 

[davek]

I take your point that war weariness has of course set in, but Putin doesn't just want the Donbas region. Pretty sure if Russians were legitimately polled they would also want an end to it, with/without the land grab. They don't get a choice though, and it amazes me how easily you would hand the Dictator what he wants and criticise the Ukranian government for trying to defend their homeland. The Ukranians definitely do not want 'almost any deal', because that includes the possibility of living under Putin's regime, and they were asked about economic reconstruction plus EU and NATO membership. That is a very specific hypothetical deal.

As for your Realpolitik, would you say the same if it was the UK under the yoke?

The bottom line here is saving lives. Lines on where borders are (always changing) and national sovereignty mean f.a. to me as I'm an internationalist and socialist.

Do you think this country is free? If the US tells our government to put its hand in a fire they'll do EXACTLY that.

Starmer's Chief of Staff McSweeney has been with Trump's people all week kissing ass and promising Trump fealty on NATO spending, aligning with the EU...just so the UK gets his nod on making any tariffs to the UK economy go away.

 

[Toffeepot]

The bottom line here is saving lives. Lines on where borders are (always changing) and national sovereignty mean f.a. to me as I'm an internationalist and socialist.

Do you think this country is free? If the US tells our government to put its hand in a fire they'll do EXACTLY that.

Starmer's Chief of Staff McSweeney has been with Trump's people all week kissing ass and promising Trump fealty on NATO spending, aligning with the EU...just so the UK gets his nod on making any tariffs to the UK economy go away.

You don't save lives by allowing dictators invade and annex wherever they want. It perpetuates it

 

[Rita_Poon]

Lammy
Mandelson
McSweeney

Keep em coming

 

[Eidean]

The bottom line here is saving lives. Lines on where borders are (always changing) and national sovereignty mean f.a. to me as I'm an internationalist and socialist.

Do you think this country is free? If the US tells our government to put its hand in a fire they'll do EXACTLY that.

Starmer's Chief of Staff McSweeney has been with Trump's people all week kissing ass and promising Trump fealty on NATO spending, aligning with the EU...just so the UK gets his nod on making any tariffs to the UK economy go away.

Continue to send aid by the looks of it, according to FT.

Didn’t have that on your bingo card eh Dave?

 

[davek]

Continue to send aid by the looks of it, according to FT.

Didn’t have that on your bingo card eh Dave?

The scale of provision is all important, and the time scale. Limited and limited on both no doubt.

Trump has staked his reputation on getting a deal done in short order with Putin. He's not going to walk away from that now.

In any case, even if they did continue to back the Ukrainians the proviso would be to increase recruitment - meaning lowering the age of recruitment to 18. That'd be the tipping point for exhausted Ukrainians.

No, the end of this war is in sight. That's pretty much guaranteed. It makes no sense anymore....which is why your Mutzo Nutzos etc have stopped posting here in volume...

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Russian losses at a new record high. Over 2200 a day as Vlad desperately throws young Russian lads into his meat grinder in the hope of getting more metres of Ukrainian land.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

The scale of provision is all important, and the time scale. Limited and limited on both no doubt.

Trump has staked his reputation on getting a deal done in short order with Putin. He's not going to walk away from that now.

In any case, even if they did continue to back the Ukrainians the proviso would be to increase recruitment - meaning lowering the age of recruitment to 18. That'd be the tipping point for exhausted Ukrainians.

No, the end of this war is in sight. That's pretty much guaranteed. It makes no sense anymore....which is why your Mutzo Nutzos etc have stopped posting here in volume...

 

[COYBL25]

The scale of provision is all important, and the time scale. Limited and limited on both no doubt.

Trump has staked his reputation on getting a deal done in short order with Putin. He's not going to walk away from that now.

In any case, even if they did continue to back the Ukrainians the proviso would be to increase recruitment - meaning lowering the age of recruitment to 18. That'd be the tipping point for exhausted Ukrainians.

No, the end of this war is in sight. That's pretty much guaranteed. It makes no sense anymore....which is why your Mutzo Nutzos etc have stopped posting here in volume...

Trump has made a career on saying one thing and then doing another or just conveniently " forgetting " that he said it all together.

He pretty much does it on a daily basis.

So your talk of him "staking his reputation " on a deal in Ukraine is utter horse dung.

Also his reputation is that of a corrupt, right wing sex offending grifter, so I don`t think this so called deal not happening will harm him one little bit.

 

[davek]

The volume has dropped off though. It's understandable given the rout taking place.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

The volume has dropped off though. It's understandable given the rout taking place.

What routs this then? Last time I checked Ukraine was still occupying Russia?

What you fail to grasp is that the front is over 600miles long - there’s bound to be gains and losses for both sides over that entire distance.

You as always pick up on a Russian gain in a certain sector and try and pass it off as a major victory.

It’s Christmas. Have a mince pie, a sweet sherry and dream of a victory tomorrow over Tory FC.

Merry Xmas

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

The bottom line here is saving lives. Lines on where borders are (always changing) and national sovereignty mean f.a. to me as I'm an internationalist and socialist.

Do you think this country is free? If the US tells our government to put its hand in a fire they'll do EXACTLY that.

Starmer's Chief of Staff McSweeney has been with Trump's people all week kissing ass and promising Trump fealty on NATO spending, aligning with the EU...just so the UK gets his nod on making any tariffs to the UK economy go away.

Replace socialist and internationalist with spiritualist and influencer and it could almost be FB92.

Almost.

 

[Hinchcliffe's Corner]

Replace socialist and internationalist with spiritualist and influencer and it could almost be FB92.

Almost.