Spadge Vernacular
Player Valuation: £70m
Ffs, someone create a map of Liverpool and surrounding wool areas!
Current Affairs Ukraine
- Thread starter Mutzo Nutzo
- Start date
- Status
Spadge Vernacular
Player Valuation: £70m
Looks like Ukraine are striking Krasnodar in Russia tonight.
Some of us are just bored with blaggers using fear as a weapon
The point being, I don't think he'd have stopped throwing manpower at it and upped the intensity even more IF his aim was to conquer all of Ukraine. And I think they'd have done it by now - nearly 3 years in. Let's flashback to March 2022 and I imagine most people would have thought Kyiv would have fallen within weeks.
That's not to say whatever his plan is isn't, you know, completely mental and wrong.
You still on your 'strength and defeat' point?
In what world do you think that happens?
Because Ukraine can chuck rockets back into Russia but that isn't going to defeat them, is it.
More innocent people die, great. Aren't we all good. Let's pat ourselves on the back.
If north korea has spare troops, maybe a testing of their borders needs to happen...
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Actually they do, but they're as bent as the Ukrainian elections which were controlled by either Moscow or the west and client oligarchs...the latter route was how that 'kin clown Zelensky got into power.
Spadge Vernacular
Player Valuation: £70m
ISW latest, more in the link.
Ukraine conducted a successful combined strike against military assets in the Russian rear on the night of November 19 to 20 using drones and Western-provided long-range weapons. The Guardian and Bloomberg both reported on November 20, citing anonymous sources, that Ukrainian forces have conducted the first strikes against military targets within Russia using UK-provided Storm Shadow missiles.[1] Geolocated footage published on November 20 shows the aftermath of a likely Storm Shadow strike near Marino, Kursk Oblast.[2] Several Russian milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces launched up to 12 Storm Shadow missiles at Kursk Oblast, fragments of which struck Marino.[3] The geolocated footage of the strike suggests that the Ukrainian target may have been the Baryatinsky Estate in Marino, which the Ukrainian defense-focused outlet Defense Express suggested was housing a command post for Russian and North Korean troops operating in Kursk Oblast.[4] ISW cannot confirm this claim at this time, but Marino is about 30km from the current Kursk Oblast salient, which would be an appropriate distance for an operational headquarters for troops conducting offensives along the salient.
Ukrainian forces also conducted a large-scale drone strike against the Russian rear on the night of November 19 to 20, particularly targeting military and defense industrial assets in Voronezh, Belgorod, and Novgorod oblasts. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian air defense systems destroyed or intercepted a total of 44 Ukrainian drones as of the morning of November 20, including 20 over Novgorod Oblast; five over Kursk Oblast; four over Oryol Oblast; three each over Belgorod, Tula, and Tver oblasts; and two each over Bryansk, Moscow, and Smolensk oblasts.[5] Head of Ukraine's Center for Combatting Disinformation Lieutenant Andriy Kovalenko stated on November 20 that Ukrainian drones struck the 13th Main Missile and Artillery Directorate (GRAU) arsenal near Kotovo, Novgorod Oblast, at which Russian forces were reportedly storing ammunition for tube artillery; mortar mines; "Grad," "Smerch," and "Uragan" multi-launch rocket systems (MLRS) missiles; Iskander ballistic missiles; S-300 and S-400 surface-to-air missiles; North Korean provided KN-23 ballistic missiles; and Tor surface-to-air system missiles.[6] Ukraine's Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported that Ukrainian forces also struck a command post of the Russian "Sever" (Nothern) Grouping of Forces in Gubkin, Belgorod Oblast.[7] Ukrainian and Russian sources additionally posted footage of the aftermath of a reported Ukrainian drone strike against the EFKO Factory in Alekseyevka, Belgorod Oblast, which Kovalenko stated produces cargo drones for the Russian military.[8] Russian sources reported that Ukrainian drones also hit an unspecified industrial enterprise in Voronezh Oblast and targeted an oil depot in Sosnovka, Samara Oblast.[9]
The November 19 to 20 strike series indicates that Ukraine has already begun leveraging Western-provided long-range weapons systems to assemble more complex and effective strike packages. Ukrainian forces notably utilized both long-range strike drones and Storm Shadow missiles in the November 19-20 strike and struck a diverse range of military targets across the Russian rear.
ISW has long assessed that the systems and capabilities that Western partners are providing Ukraine, alongside Ukraine's indigenous defense industrial production and innovation efforts, are all constituent components of wider capabilities that Ukraine requires to successfully wage a multi-domain large-scale modern war.[10] Ukraine has already proven itself effective in using often domestically-produced drones to strike a variety of military targets in the Russian rear, including air bases, command headquarters, and artillery depots.[11] Ukraine's arsenal already includes aerial and naval drones and Western-provided systems such as F-16s, HIMARS, and ATACMS, although the conditions of use on the latter systems have been restricted enough to limit the benefit Ukraine can accrue by using them.[12] The addition of more powerful and precise Western-provided systems, such as JASSMs and additional ATACMS, Storm Shadows, and SCALP systems, is crucial in enabling Ukraine to scale up the effects it can generate through long-range strikes against the Russian rear.
Russian forces, in contrast, have been experimenting and diversifying their strike packages to inflict maximum damage on Ukrainian critical infrastructure, conducting frequent strikes with a combination of Iranian-provided or Russian-produced Shahed drones and drone variants, North Korean-provided and domestically produced ballistic and cruise missiles, hypersonic missiles, and aerial bombs.[13]
Western restrictions on Ukraine's ability to use Western-provided weapons to strike within Russian territory have limited Ukrainian capabilities in developing commensurate strike packages. Ukraine requires continued Western military assistance, as well as domestic innovation and production, in order to continue building and utilizing strike packages to target the Russian rear and generate tactical to operational-level impacts on the battlefield.
www.understandingwar.org
Ukraine conducted a successful combined strike against military assets in the Russian rear on the night of November 19 to 20 using drones and Western-provided long-range weapons. The Guardian and Bloomberg both reported on November 20, citing anonymous sources, that Ukrainian forces have conducted the first strikes against military targets within Russia using UK-provided Storm Shadow missiles.[1] Geolocated footage published on November 20 shows the aftermath of a likely Storm Shadow strike near Marino, Kursk Oblast.[2] Several Russian milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces launched up to 12 Storm Shadow missiles at Kursk Oblast, fragments of which struck Marino.[3] The geolocated footage of the strike suggests that the Ukrainian target may have been the Baryatinsky Estate in Marino, which the Ukrainian defense-focused outlet Defense Express suggested was housing a command post for Russian and North Korean troops operating in Kursk Oblast.[4] ISW cannot confirm this claim at this time, but Marino is about 30km from the current Kursk Oblast salient, which would be an appropriate distance for an operational headquarters for troops conducting offensives along the salient.
Ukrainian forces also conducted a large-scale drone strike against the Russian rear on the night of November 19 to 20, particularly targeting military and defense industrial assets in Voronezh, Belgorod, and Novgorod oblasts. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed that Russian air defense systems destroyed or intercepted a total of 44 Ukrainian drones as of the morning of November 20, including 20 over Novgorod Oblast; five over Kursk Oblast; four over Oryol Oblast; three each over Belgorod, Tula, and Tver oblasts; and two each over Bryansk, Moscow, and Smolensk oblasts.[5] Head of Ukraine's Center for Combatting Disinformation Lieutenant Andriy Kovalenko stated on November 20 that Ukrainian drones struck the 13th Main Missile and Artillery Directorate (GRAU) arsenal near Kotovo, Novgorod Oblast, at which Russian forces were reportedly storing ammunition for tube artillery; mortar mines; "Grad," "Smerch," and "Uragan" multi-launch rocket systems (MLRS) missiles; Iskander ballistic missiles; S-300 and S-400 surface-to-air missiles; North Korean provided KN-23 ballistic missiles; and Tor surface-to-air system missiles.[6] Ukraine's Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported that Ukrainian forces also struck a command post of the Russian "Sever" (Nothern) Grouping of Forces in Gubkin, Belgorod Oblast.[7] Ukrainian and Russian sources additionally posted footage of the aftermath of a reported Ukrainian drone strike against the EFKO Factory in Alekseyevka, Belgorod Oblast, which Kovalenko stated produces cargo drones for the Russian military.[8] Russian sources reported that Ukrainian drones also hit an unspecified industrial enterprise in Voronezh Oblast and targeted an oil depot in Sosnovka, Samara Oblast.[9]
The November 19 to 20 strike series indicates that Ukraine has already begun leveraging Western-provided long-range weapons systems to assemble more complex and effective strike packages. Ukrainian forces notably utilized both long-range strike drones and Storm Shadow missiles in the November 19-20 strike and struck a diverse range of military targets across the Russian rear.
ISW has long assessed that the systems and capabilities that Western partners are providing Ukraine, alongside Ukraine's indigenous defense industrial production and innovation efforts, are all constituent components of wider capabilities that Ukraine requires to successfully wage a multi-domain large-scale modern war.[10] Ukraine has already proven itself effective in using often domestically-produced drones to strike a variety of military targets in the Russian rear, including air bases, command headquarters, and artillery depots.[11] Ukraine's arsenal already includes aerial and naval drones and Western-provided systems such as F-16s, HIMARS, and ATACMS, although the conditions of use on the latter systems have been restricted enough to limit the benefit Ukraine can accrue by using them.[12] The addition of more powerful and precise Western-provided systems, such as JASSMs and additional ATACMS, Storm Shadows, and SCALP systems, is crucial in enabling Ukraine to scale up the effects it can generate through long-range strikes against the Russian rear.
Russian forces, in contrast, have been experimenting and diversifying their strike packages to inflict maximum damage on Ukrainian critical infrastructure, conducting frequent strikes with a combination of Iranian-provided or Russian-produced Shahed drones and drone variants, North Korean-provided and domestically produced ballistic and cruise missiles, hypersonic missiles, and aerial bombs.[13]
Western restrictions on Ukraine's ability to use Western-provided weapons to strike within Russian territory have limited Ukrainian capabilities in developing commensurate strike packages. Ukraine requires continued Western military assistance, as well as domestic innovation and production, in order to continue building and utilizing strike packages to target the Russian rear and generate tactical to operational-level impacts on the battlefield.
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, November 20, 2024
Ukraine conducted a successful combined strike against military assets in the Russian rear on the night of November 19 to 20 using drones and Western-provided long-range weapons.
www.understandingwar.org
sbbefc
Player Valuation: £30m
Didn't we play them in Europe?
A weapon against what?
You should be scared of someone dropping a nuke. It's why all the world's powers have them - mutually assured destruction.
I don't agree with Dave that'll get that far but all the idiots in charge are doing is pushing us closer to the point where it could happen. In the meantime, they're also destroying what's left of certain areas of Ukraine and now Russia.
Our western leaders are just as much war criminals as Putin is. They're the same world leaders backing a war criminal in Israel.
Not sure why that's not where anyone's anger isn't directed.
Spadge Vernacular
Player Valuation: £70m
Now you mention it, I believe er did!
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
It's pointless mate. Just look at the state of some of the posts here: laughing and joking about missiles.
People who spend all day on military blogger websites and then spew the contents onto an Everton forum are very strange and perhaps worse...
I'd do some more research then.
You're fine to see it that way in regards to 'Russian pride', but by the same token you can say that about the US, UK and every other major nation on Earth. They are a hardened people though which I think is where there's a difference that comes with what they've gone through as a people - a constant persecution (that's how they feel). You can disagree but that's an opinion - it's not fact, which you're putting it across as.
Would the US stand for Mexico joining an alliance with China? Would they then be happy if said alliance means that there are rockets placed within Mexico.
So yes, 'Russia is a bully'. And so is the US. And so is the UK.
I sympathise with everybody who is impacted, and I don't in anyway condone anything Putin has ordered. But you can do that and also acknowledge that the West has played its part.
I also have personal experience with Russian people. Who aren't the evil or warped folk you're making them out to be.
I also know first-hand how they're being persecuted in places like Latvia (a country that is in the EU, which literally offers ZERO to the EU other than it being tactically well placed), where half the population is either Russian speaking or see themselves as Russian. Last New Years, the Latvian government made it a crime for people to let fireworks off at 11pm in celebration of Russian New Years. They have also threatened deportation to people who don't speak Latvian and instead only speak Russian (keep in mind that up until 15-20 years ago, Latvian wasn't taught as a first language in most of their schools). You tell me how that's right?
A note also that in Latvia, there's one particularly large NATO base around 30 miles out from Riga. That was there well before Russia began mounting troops on Ukraine's border.
So yes, I do think there's plenty of wrong on both sides. From the relatively 'tame' examples above to then the outright slaughter that has happened in the war. And I think it's completely ignorant and bordering on stupidity if you don't think the West hasn't played a huge part. I can still think all of that and also think Putin is horrific - which I do and have done for a long time.
What gives the US, UK or EU/NATO the right to be aggressors, but by the same token not Russia? You can't blame one party without blaming the others.
I don't think the Wests' actions are the ONLY reason Putin invaded. But I do think they are a reason.
Tbf it is better than talking about the footy like (just to bring a bit of levity to the conversation).
- Status