Current Affairs Ukraine

[Yarrgh]

Reports are now suggesting the F-16s supplied to Ukraine are practically useless. They're no threat at all to Russian jets and it looks like they wont be in action again in this conflict.

The west have handed Kyiv a load of hooky gear.

Well if you believe rumours then Ukraine shot the first one down themselves and there's been 2 unconfirmed reports of Kinzhal missile attacks destroying others with little reporting on their subsequent use adding fuel to the rumours. I imagine if there was proof other then the circumstantial images of damage to the airfields were they supposed to be based at then it would have been all over the Internet for propaganda purposes.

The fact that there's not very many of them, rushed training of pilots and likely limitations on how they can be used from the US is the reason it's not looking good for them in all honesty.

The money would have been better spent on the rather unglamorous work of fortifying positions in the east or a few more drone attacks on Russian military infrastructure.

 

[Eidean]

Imagine calling people naive & holding the opinion there’d be a long lasting Russian peace if the Ukrainians gave up the Donbas for peace.

Hilarious. Almost as hilarious as saying countries who’d been ethnically cleansed by the Soviets needed to be forced to join NATO

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Reports are now suggesting the F-16s supplied to Ukraine are practically useless. They're no threat at all to Russian jets and it looks like they wont be in action again in this conflict.

The west have handed Kyiv a load of hooky gear.

Link?

 

[tantavisiteler]

the loss of vuhledar; it hurts not gonna lie

 

[davek]

Well if you believe rumours then Ukraine shot the first one down themselves and there's been 2 unconfirmed reports of Kinzhal missile attacks destroying others with little reporting on their subsequent use adding fuel to the rumours. I imagine if there was proof other then the circumstantial images of damage to the airfields were they supposed to be based at then it would have been all over the Internet for propaganda purposes.

The fact that there's not very many of them, rushed training of pilots and likely limitations on how they can be used from the US is the reason it's not looking good for them in all honesty.

The money would have been better spent on the rather unglamorous work of fortifying positions in the east or a few more drone attacks on Russian military infrastructure.

No wonder the Yanks haven;t handed them permission to use long range missiles, they'd probably hit Washington with them.

 

[davek]

Link?

The old F-16s the West is giving Ukraine can't outmatch Russia's best jets, former US general says

The F-16s Ukraine's allies are giving it are older models, meaning they'll struggle against Russia's best jets, a former US general told BI.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Bedfordblue]

The old F-16s the West is giving Ukraine can't outmatch Russia's best jets, former US general says

The F-16s Ukraine's allies are giving it are older models, meaning they'll struggle against Russia's best jets, a former US general told BI.

www.businessinsider.com

US Army Maj. Gen. Gordon 'Skip' Davis Sounds like the military equivalent to Keith Wyness Tbf.
Don’t think anyone thought these F-16s were the latest iteration nor were they expected to be a match for Russian front line latest generation fighters.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

The old F-16s the West is giving Ukraine can't outmatch Russia's best jets, former US general says

The F-16s Ukraine's allies are giving it are older models, meaning they'll struggle against Russia's best jets, a former US general told BI.

www.businessinsider.com

Very poor article written by someone with limited knowledge of modern air warfare. The F-16’s were never intended to go toe-to-toe with Russian SU-35’s.

The current air warfare situation in Ukraine can be classed as “parity” ie no-one holds air superiority. That is down to the amount of AD and EW systems in use by both sides.

Any aircraft flying into a designated kill-box will be shot down.

Instead Russia uses SU-24/25’s armed with glide bombs to attack ground targets from ranges up to 70km. The introduction of the F-16’s with AMRAAM give them an engagement range of 120km so that will be a key goal of the UAF to get their pilots/planes flying these type of missions in order to counter the glide bomb threat.

Currently they are flying missions to counter drone and cruise missions attacks. Once they get more experience and exposure then their mission capabilities will be expanded.

The US is now also shipping JSOW’s to Ukraine - again once the UAF pilots and tactics are nailed then they will use the F-16 in a ground-attack role.

It’s not a dud aircraft by any means. It’s a considerable upgrade on the Mig-29/SU-27’s they currently have but the F-16 will not achieve air superiority for Ukraine but neither will the SU-35 for Russia. So again we stay at parity.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Very poor article written by someone with limited knowledge of modern air warfare. The F-16’s were never intended to go toe-to-toe with Russian SU-35’s.

The current air warfare situation in Ukraine can be classed as “parity” ie no-one holds air superiority. That is down to the amount of AD and EW systems in use by both sides.

Any aircraft flying into a designated kill-box will be shot down.

Instead Russia uses SU-24/25’s armed with glide bombs to attack ground targets from ranges up to 70km. The introduction of the F-16’s with AMRAAM give them an engagement range of 120km so that will be a key goal of the UAF to get their pilots/planes flying these type of missions in order to counter the glide bomb threat.

Currently they are flying missions to counter drone and cruise missions attacks. Once they get more experience and exposure then their mission capabilities will be expanded.

The US is now also shipping JSOW’s to Ukraine - again once the UAF pilots and tactics are nailed then they will use the F-16 in a ground-attack role.

It’s not a dud aircraft by any means. It’s a considerable upgrade on the Mig-29/SU-27’s they currently have but the F-16 will not achieve air superiority for Ukraine but neither will the SU-35 for Russia. So again we stay at parity.

Yeh, but apart from that

 

[Yarrgh]

Very poor article written by someone with limited knowledge of modern air warfare. The F-16’s were never intended to go toe-to-toe with Russian SU-35’s.

The current air warfare situation in Ukraine can be classed as “parity” ie no-one holds air superiority. That is down to the amount of AD and EW systems in use by both sides.

Any aircraft flying into a designated kill-box will be shot down.

Instead Russia uses SU-24/25’s armed with glide bombs to attack ground targets from ranges up to 70km. The introduction of the F-16’s with AMRAAM give them an engagement range of 120km so that will be a key goal of the UAF to get their pilots/planes flying these type of missions in order to counter the glide bomb threat.

Currently they are flying missions to counter drone and cruise missions attacks. Once they get more experience and exposure then their mission capabilities will be expanded.

The US is now also shipping JSOW’s to Ukraine - again once the UAF pilots and tactics are nailed then they will use the F-16 in a ground-attack role.

It’s not a dud aircraft by any means. It’s a considerable upgrade on the Mig-29/SU-27’s they currently have but the F-16 will not achieve air superiority for Ukraine but neither will the SU-35 for Russia. So again we stay at parity.

Gordon “Skip” Davis is currently a Senior Fellow at the Center for European Policy Analysis. He recently served as NATO’s Deputy Assistant Secretary-General for Defense Investment. Prior to NATO, Skip served 37 years in the U.S. Army retiring as a Major General.

No match for the collective knowledge of GOT!!!!

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Gordon “Skip” Davis is currently a Senior Fellow at the Center for European Policy Analysis. He recently served as NATO’s Deputy Assistant Secretary-General for Defense Investment. Prior to NATO, Skip served 37 years in the U.S. Army retiring as a Major General.

No match for the collective knowledge of GOT!!!!

He didn’t write the article. It’s been written by a journo taking and using quotes by Davis using them out of context.

 

[davek]

US Army Maj. Gen. Gordon 'Skip' Davis Sounds like the military equivalent to Keith Wyness Tbf.
Don’t think anyone thought these F-16s were the latest iteration nor were they expected to be a match for Russian front line latest generation fighters.

Well they demanded them as being game changers for long enough. Weren't they aware they were hooky gear?

 

[Yarrgh]

He didn’t write the article. It’s been written by a journo taking and using quotes by Davis using them out of context.

Should have quoted the post above.

However from Googling him, Davis has argued that Ukraine should have access to more up to date aircraft and be allowed to use more of their capabilities.

Also I thought the new glide bomb mods had extended the range by a lot hence the 'surprise' when Russia hit Zaphorizhzhia this week.

 

[davek]

Very poor article written by someone with limited knowledge of modern air warfare. The F-16’s were never intended to go toe-to-toe with Russian SU-35’s.

The current air warfare situation in Ukraine can be classed as “parity” ie no-one holds air superiority. That is down to the amount of AD and EW systems in use by both sides.

Any aircraft flying into a designated kill-box will be shot down.

Instead Russia uses SU-24/25’s armed with glide bombs to attack ground targets from ranges up to 70km. The introduction of the F-16’s with AMRAAM give them an engagement range of 120km so that will be a key goal of the UAF to get their pilots/planes flying these type of missions in order to counter the glide bomb threat.

Currently they are flying missions to counter drone and cruise missions attacks. Once they get more experience and exposure then their mission capabilities will be expanded.

The US is now also shipping JSOW’s to Ukraine - again once the UAF pilots and tactics are nailed then they will use the F-16 in a ground-attack role.

It’s not a dud aircraft by any means. It’s a considerable upgrade on the Mig-29/SU-27’s they currently have but the F-16 will not achieve air superiority for Ukraine but neither will the SU-35 for Russia. So again we stay at parity.

How many do they still have left that were handed to them?

They've had one shot down or malfunction and another 4 destroyed at an airbase in western Ukraine by Russian missiles.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Should have quoted the post above.

However from Googling him, Davis has argued that Ukraine should have access to more up to date aircraft and be allowed to use more of their capabilities.

Also I thought the new glide bomb mods had extended the range by a lot hence the 'surprise' when Russia hit Zaphorizhzhia this week.

Russia I think is using KAB-500’s which originally had a glide range of 40km but now they’ve stuck on JDAM type wing kits and I believe that extended the range to 70km.