PhilEFC
Player Valuation: £35m
Yeah. Some of our gear isn’t great either. The SA80 for example, very accurate but unreliable.
I know the new version is a lot better though and I think they are phasing it out in a few years.
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Yeah. Some of our gear isn’t great either. The SA80 for example, very accurate but unreliable.
I know the new version is a lot better though and I think they are phasing it out in a few years.
The L85A2 and the new L85A3 aren't perfect, however they are vast improvements on the original L85A1, which was disastrous in its introduction.
It was terribly unreliable, it didn't like sand (sorry Gulf '91 and start of Afghanistan and Iraq '03) or rain. Lots of infantry were very sad to see the SLR go!
The newer L85A3, which is being phased in, has new optics (no more SUSAT or iron sights) and improved picatinny rails, whilst some units are getting the L403A1.
I may be wrong, but I don't think they're looking at phasing out the SA80 entirely, with the new rifle being an alternative, so simply augmenting what they've got.
PhilEFC
Player Valuation: £35m
Yeah, the original wasn't great in Afghan or Iraq and it took a lot of cleaning to maintain its working parts. Even earlier than that it had an issue with stoppages caused by ejecting rounds and they changed the cocking handle. The SLR was a much better rifle.
I thought the combat arms like the new Ranger Regiments etc were looking at a new AIW. Makes sense to keep the SA80 for the support Corps.
I thought the combat arms like the new Ranger Regiments etc were looking at a new AIW. Makes sense to keep the SA80 for the support Corps.
The RMs, Rangers and a few other units definitely getting it (have got it) - the L403A1, which is branded KS-1; it's based on the AR platform and top optics etc.
I think those units will probably utilise it most or all of the time, but officially it's to augment the SA80 - they'll still train on it. Other line infantry will keep the SA80.
Spadge Vernacular
Player Valuation: £70m
Spadge Vernacular
Player Valuation: £70m
Reports saying that military and political leaders have sent the below to Pres Biden.
Russia’s personnel shortages evident in Kursk deployment
The UK Ministry of Defence has released a new intelligence update revealing significant challenges faced by the Russian military in sustaining its operations, particularly in the Kursk region.
ukdefencejournal.org.uk
The longer this war goes on and the longer they persist with such blunt tactics, which inflict significant casualties, the more they'll drain their wider abilities.
Without intending to be macabre, it'll be easier for them to replace inexperienced grunts (like many of their infantry are) than sappers, logistics or signals staff.
That experience and expertise will be far, far harder to replace, and could have much deeper issues down the line. Likewise, they're losing aircraft at an alarming rate.
Damo_1878
Don't care. Not bothered.
I've used the L85A2. Excellent weapon. Never the A3 as was out before then, but have seen some of the changes they've made. I prefer the bullpup design personally and it would be my go to as just like people in the SLR and/or the FN FAL era would go back to those. To say the SA80 isn't a good weapon is just plain wrong however. It was the A1 introduction that was rushed and introduced in a ridiculous way that caused all the issues. A2 was a great weapon.
I've been talking to my good friend who's an academic and well known commentator on the military.
I doubt any decision will be made on the next individual weapon until they see what the performance is on the XM7 and/or the 6.8 mm calibre weapon by the US Army versus the traditional 5.56 NATO round.
But I doubt any decision will be made for at least 2 or 3 years, as a consequence. There is always trade-offs such as punching power and weight versus capacity.
It could be that certain units get 6.8 mm for certain mission types but as for 5.56 NATO and complete replacement. No idea. Until the US Military make their decisions and then we and most of NATO will follow suit.
So basically, a little like the KS-1. Certain units may get 6.8 mm and certain units get their own 5.56 NATO individual weapons.
Damo_1878
Don't care. Not bothered.
@PhilM @PhilEFC I've been watching the XM7 thing quite closely and been talking about it with someone who follows and writes in the national press, a lot about these topics (and he's in a position to do so).
I'm sad never going to get the chance to have a go with the 6.8 mm round and see what it's like
As I said though, I personally always preferred the bullpup design. No idea what the Army will choose eventually for the SA80 replacement. Why such an interesting thing to watch.
PhilEFC
Player Valuation: £35m
I’m not saying it wasn’t a good rifle, just not reliable in my opinion. I found it pain in the arse to clean and had too many stoppages. And it’s very restrictive if you are left handed due it to being a bullpup. The SUSAT was very good though.
I’ve used both and in my opinion the SLR is the best for reliability and effectiveness as an individual weapon.
I’ve been out for years now, so not clued up
on what’s coming round the corner, but I think if we go with whatever the Americans go with that has got to be the way to go.
Damo_1878
Don't care. Not bothered.
I’m not saying it wasn’t a good rifle, just not reliable in my opinion. I found it pain in the arse to clean and had too many stoppages. And it’s very restrictive if you are left handed due it to being a bullpup. The SUSAT was very good though.
I’ve used both and in my opinion the SLR is the best for reliability and effectiveness as an individual weapon.
I’ve been out for years now, so not clued up
on what’s coming round the corner, but I think if we go with whatever the Americans go with that has got to be the way to go.
I think part of it is what you initially get trained on.
As for the next gen assault rifle, yes we'll see what the Americans go with as what they go with will dictate economies of scale etc. The XM7 thing is interesting to watch. It's apparently been lauded for it's longer range and stopping power but obviously only having a 20 round mag and lower individual soldier carry capacity is the trade off.
Why I don't think we'll see a fully Army or military wide weapon applied. Certain units might get 6.8 mm or access to it case-by-case but we may end up with several weapons.
So tempted to go nuclear with off topic reporting
That is nuts
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Associated Press report on the loss of territory in the east of Ukraine.
While Ukraine presses on with its incursion into Russia’s Kursk region, its troops are still losing precious ground along the country’s eastern front — a grim erosion that military commanders blame in part on poorly trained recruits drawn from a recent mobilization drive, as well as Russia’s clear superiority in ammunition and air power.
“Some people don’t want to shoot. They see the enemy in the firing position in trenches but don’t open fire. ... That is why our men are dying,” said a frustrated battalion commander in Ukraine’s 47th Brigade. “When they don’t use the weapon, they are ineffective.”
The accounts come from commanders and soldiers who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity in order to speak freely about sensitive military matters. Others spoke on the condition that they be identified only by their call signs in keeping with Ukrainian military protocol.
Commanders say the recruits have contributed to a string of territorial losses that enabled Russia’s army to advance, including near the city of Pokrovsk, a critical logistics hub. If it falls, the defeat would imperil Ukraine’s defenses and bring Russia closer to its stated aim of capturing the Donetsk region. Russian soldiers are now just 10 kilometers (6.2 miles) away.
Adding to Ukraine’s woes are Russia’s huge advantage in manpower and its willingness to accept staggering losses in return for capturing small objectives.
The recently conscripted Ukrainians are a far cry from the battle-hardened fighters who flocked to join the war in the first year of the full-scale invasion. The new troops lack even a minimal level of training, commanders and soldiers from four brigades defending the Pokrovsk area said.
They described having to plan operations with infantry who are unable to shoot targets and uninformed about basic topography. Some recruits simply lacked faith in the battle plans of their superiors and walked away from prepared positions.
Frustrated with the quality of the new conscripts sent to the front line by territorial recruitment centers, commanders are now seeking to conduct their own mobilization drives to better screen and train new fighters, multiple commanders and soldiers said.
“The main problem is the survival instinct of newcomers. Before, people could stand until the last moment to hold the position. Now, even when there is light shelling of firing positions, they are retreating,” said a soldier with the 110th Brigade.
Not everyone is turning around and running away from battle, he added.
“No, there are motivated people, but they are just very, very few,” he said. “The position is held as far as there are these people who are motivated and committed.”
Following the implementation of a controversial mobilization law in May that established clearer regulations for territorial recruitment centers, Ukraine is reportedly drafting tens of thousands of fighters per month. Demand is highest in the infantry.
But there are logistical hurdles to train, equip and pay so many incoming people, and commanders constantly demand new soldiers. To ease that pressure, military leaders have had to take units from brigades in one region and transfer them to different areas to stabilize weak spots.
Some point the finger back at commanders who single out recent recruits for losses.
Viktor Kevliuk, a military expert with the Ukraine-based Center for Defense Strategies think tank, said the training offered to recruits is adequate. He said brigade commanders “are looking for an explanation for tactical failures.”
“Likewise, the brigade commander has the appropriate tools to influence morale. If all these processes are established in the brigade, there will be no significant problems. If these mechanisms fail, we read about the negativity in social networks,” he added.
And in intense fights such as the one in Pokrovsk, “it is the timely tactical decisions of commanders that make the difference, Kevliuk said.
In some instances, terrified new recruits have fled from the fight.
“This fear creates panic and chaos,” said the battalion commander in the 47th Brigade. “This is also the reason we have lost.”
The loss of the village of Prohres last month in the Pokrovsk region is the most recent example of territorial loss blamed on new recruits, commanders said. Units from the 31st Brigade left in a poorly coordinated frenzy, prompting the 47th Brigade to enter the battle and attempt to stabilize the line. A similar scenario unfolded in the village of Ocheretyne in May.
Not enough is done to train newcomers, the battalion commander said. “They don’t receive even the lowest standard of training required for our (combat) actions,” he said.
The new men do not have enough practice assembling and shooting their rifles, he said. They also have not learned how to coordinate combat tasks in small groups or to use even simple tactics, he added.
“From the command point, I would like to issue orders to small (infantry) groups, but I am not sure if they are capable of executing these orders because they lack coordination and communication,” he said, adding, “Sometimes, I want to shoot myself.”
Ukraine’s sudden foray into Russia initially stirred hopes that the Kremlin might be forced to divide its military resources to respond. But so far, Russian forces have not wavered in their push toward Pokrovsk and other potential conquests.
Meanwhile, Ukraine’s lightning advance into Russian territory has slowed after two weeks, making only small gains, a possible sign that Moscow is counter-attacking more effectively.
Commanders in the east report that battles have only intensified since the incursion. Local authorities on Monday ordered Pokrovsk’s nearly 53,000 residents to evacuate within two weeks. In the neighboring town of Myrnohrad, even closer to Russian positions, residents were given only days.
The capture of Pokrovsk would undermine Ukrainian supply routes to the Donetsk region and ease Russia’s advance to the eastern cities of Sloviansk and Kostiantynivka. It would also mark Russia’s first major strategic win after months of painfully fought marginal gains.
In the last three months, the majority of Ukrainian territorial losses were recorded in the Pokrovsk area, according to three open-source monitoring groups, with fighting intensifying in the vicinity of the towns of Toretsk and Chasiv Yar. Russian forces dialed up the attacks in an attempt to capitalize on troop fatigue and shortages.
The offensive has also come at a huge cost to Moscow, with an estimated 70,000 troops lost in two months, according to the U.K. Defense Ministry, which posted the projection last month on X. Heavy losses have continued as Russian forces gradually approach Pokrovsk from the east and southeast.
Another challenge for Ukraine is a new tactic in which Russia deploys recurrent waves of smaller infantry units of two to four men. That has flummoxed Ukrainian drone operators, who find it difficult to target them, according to a drone operator with the 25th Brigade who uses the call sign Groot.
“This is one of the main reasons for (Russia’s) success in Pokrovsk,” he said. “It’s harder to detect them,” especially under the cover of leafy trees.
“As soon as the infantry get under the tree lines, it’s really hard to get them out of there with drones, and that’s why we depend a lot on our infantry.”
Poorly trained recruits contribute to loss of Ukrainian territory on eastern front, commanders say
KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Some new Ukrainian soldiers refuse to fire at the enemy. Others, according to commanders and fellow fighters, struggle to assemble weapons or to coordinate basic combat movements. A few have even walked away from their posts, abandoning the battlefield altogether.While Ukraine presses on with its incursion into Russia’s Kursk region, its troops are still losing precious ground along the country’s eastern front — a grim erosion that military commanders blame in part on poorly trained recruits drawn from a recent mobilization drive, as well as Russia’s clear superiority in ammunition and air power.
“Some people don’t want to shoot. They see the enemy in the firing position in trenches but don’t open fire. ... That is why our men are dying,” said a frustrated battalion commander in Ukraine’s 47th Brigade. “When they don’t use the weapon, they are ineffective.”
The accounts come from commanders and soldiers who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity in order to speak freely about sensitive military matters. Others spoke on the condition that they be identified only by their call signs in keeping with Ukrainian military protocol.
Commanders say the recruits have contributed to a string of territorial losses that enabled Russia’s army to advance, including near the city of Pokrovsk, a critical logistics hub. If it falls, the defeat would imperil Ukraine’s defenses and bring Russia closer to its stated aim of capturing the Donetsk region. Russian soldiers are now just 10 kilometers (6.2 miles) away.
Adding to Ukraine’s woes are Russia’s huge advantage in manpower and its willingness to accept staggering losses in return for capturing small objectives.
The recently conscripted Ukrainians are a far cry from the battle-hardened fighters who flocked to join the war in the first year of the full-scale invasion. The new troops lack even a minimal level of training, commanders and soldiers from four brigades defending the Pokrovsk area said.
They described having to plan operations with infantry who are unable to shoot targets and uninformed about basic topography. Some recruits simply lacked faith in the battle plans of their superiors and walked away from prepared positions.
Frustrated with the quality of the new conscripts sent to the front line by territorial recruitment centers, commanders are now seeking to conduct their own mobilization drives to better screen and train new fighters, multiple commanders and soldiers said.
“The main problem is the survival instinct of newcomers. Before, people could stand until the last moment to hold the position. Now, even when there is light shelling of firing positions, they are retreating,” said a soldier with the 110th Brigade.
Not everyone is turning around and running away from battle, he added.
“No, there are motivated people, but they are just very, very few,” he said. “The position is held as far as there are these people who are motivated and committed.”
Following the implementation of a controversial mobilization law in May that established clearer regulations for territorial recruitment centers, Ukraine is reportedly drafting tens of thousands of fighters per month. Demand is highest in the infantry.
But there are logistical hurdles to train, equip and pay so many incoming people, and commanders constantly demand new soldiers. To ease that pressure, military leaders have had to take units from brigades in one region and transfer them to different areas to stabilize weak spots.
Some point the finger back at commanders who single out recent recruits for losses.
Viktor Kevliuk, a military expert with the Ukraine-based Center for Defense Strategies think tank, said the training offered to recruits is adequate. He said brigade commanders “are looking for an explanation for tactical failures.”
“Likewise, the brigade commander has the appropriate tools to influence morale. If all these processes are established in the brigade, there will be no significant problems. If these mechanisms fail, we read about the negativity in social networks,” he added.
And in intense fights such as the one in Pokrovsk, “it is the timely tactical decisions of commanders that make the difference, Kevliuk said.
In some instances, terrified new recruits have fled from the fight.
“This fear creates panic and chaos,” said the battalion commander in the 47th Brigade. “This is also the reason we have lost.”
The loss of the village of Prohres last month in the Pokrovsk region is the most recent example of territorial loss blamed on new recruits, commanders said. Units from the 31st Brigade left in a poorly coordinated frenzy, prompting the 47th Brigade to enter the battle and attempt to stabilize the line. A similar scenario unfolded in the village of Ocheretyne in May.
Not enough is done to train newcomers, the battalion commander said. “They don’t receive even the lowest standard of training required for our (combat) actions,” he said.
The new men do not have enough practice assembling and shooting their rifles, he said. They also have not learned how to coordinate combat tasks in small groups or to use even simple tactics, he added.
“From the command point, I would like to issue orders to small (infantry) groups, but I am not sure if they are capable of executing these orders because they lack coordination and communication,” he said, adding, “Sometimes, I want to shoot myself.”
Ukraine’s sudden foray into Russia initially stirred hopes that the Kremlin might be forced to divide its military resources to respond. But so far, Russian forces have not wavered in their push toward Pokrovsk and other potential conquests.
Meanwhile, Ukraine’s lightning advance into Russian territory has slowed after two weeks, making only small gains, a possible sign that Moscow is counter-attacking more effectively.
Commanders in the east report that battles have only intensified since the incursion. Local authorities on Monday ordered Pokrovsk’s nearly 53,000 residents to evacuate within two weeks. In the neighboring town of Myrnohrad, even closer to Russian positions, residents were given only days.
The capture of Pokrovsk would undermine Ukrainian supply routes to the Donetsk region and ease Russia’s advance to the eastern cities of Sloviansk and Kostiantynivka. It would also mark Russia’s first major strategic win after months of painfully fought marginal gains.
In the last three months, the majority of Ukrainian territorial losses were recorded in the Pokrovsk area, according to three open-source monitoring groups, with fighting intensifying in the vicinity of the towns of Toretsk and Chasiv Yar. Russian forces dialed up the attacks in an attempt to capitalize on troop fatigue and shortages.
The offensive has also come at a huge cost to Moscow, with an estimated 70,000 troops lost in two months, according to the U.K. Defense Ministry, which posted the projection last month on X. Heavy losses have continued as Russian forces gradually approach Pokrovsk from the east and southeast.
Another challenge for Ukraine is a new tactic in which Russia deploys recurrent waves of smaller infantry units of two to four men. That has flummoxed Ukrainian drone operators, who find it difficult to target them, according to a drone operator with the 25th Brigade who uses the call sign Groot.
“This is one of the main reasons for (Russia’s) success in Pokrovsk,” he said. “It’s harder to detect them,” especially under the cover of leafy trees.
“As soon as the infantry get under the tree lines, it’s really hard to get them out of there with drones, and that’s why we depend a lot on our infantry.”
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