Current Affairs Ukraine

[Lobster Johnson]

Yes I want the Russians to win because primarily I believe they have genuine interests in that area which involve its own security, while we have no interest whatsoever but insist on meddling. The only party that has 'no reason' to be involved is the west.

I am not Russian, in fact born and bred here, but its interesting that you frame this from a strictly nationalist perspective which kind of indicates that is the only angle you can only rationally expect this debate to be fought, probably including your own. I say that not that I think you are Ukrainian but have adopted a typically anglo-saxon perspective which is anti-Russian for historical imperialist reasons.

Its well-known for example that Churchill himself took an anti-German view in WW2 not out of any serious issue with the Germans on ideological grounds, but that he saw it as a challenge to empire, so we have form in that sphere.

Furthermore I believe in the concept of the Balanced of Power and from it I believe justice and order can emerge. Without it we have what we have now, is one power trying to force themselves on everyone else, wether they like it or not.

And by the way, it is not clear to 'everyone' that Putin is the bad guy here, I would guess about 70% of the worlds population dont view it that way at all.

The only people who aren’t mentioned in your analysis are Ukrainians. What about what they want?

 

[Alan Whittle]

well he had a very large area filled with Russians, on his own doorstep, that was being shelled daily for years, and whose inhabitants desperately wanted to join Russia

So theres that.........

but apart from that, no, nothing I can think of really...

Oh, so like Danzig in the late 30’s where the German speaking population (content before Hitler came to power) suddenly became anxious to join the Reich and a whole load of completely fictitious incidents were used as a justification for invasion.
Mmm.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

Well they could have done, if they had done some research, but the media here has been complicit since 2014 with a wall of silence on the issue - as it suited the anti-Russian narrative.

Why have they found it so difficult to “liberate” these areas that desperately want to be part of Russia? They still don’t control even half of them now.

 

[Tramps_mate]

Yes I want the Russians to win because primarily I believe they have genuine interests in that area which involve its own security, while we have no interest whatsoever but insist on meddling. The only party that has 'no reason' to be involved is the west.

I am not Russian, in fact born and bred here, but its interesting that you frame this from a strictly nationalist perspective which kind of indicates that is the only angle you can only rationally expect this debate to be fought, probably including your own. I say that not that I think you are Ukrainian but have adopted a typically anglo-saxon perspective which is anti-Russian for historical imperialist reasons.

Its well-known for example that Churchill himself took an anti-German view in WW2 not out of any serious issue with the Germans on ideological grounds, but that he saw it as a challenge to empire, so we have form in that sphere.

Furthermore I believe in the concept of the Balanced of Power and from it I believe justice and order can emerge. Without it we have what we have now, is one power trying to force themselves on everyone else, wether they like it or not.

And by the way, it is not clear to 'everyone' that Putin is the bad guy here, I would guess about 70% of the worlds population dont view it that way at all.

Interested in natural resources just like we are. That is all this war is about.

But that does not give them the right to invade. The fact you cant see that is incredible in my opinion.

I used to like Putin as I thought he did well speaking out against the corrupt West etc etc. and didn't stand for their crap.

However this war is completely undefendable. Putin IS the bad guy. The only people that don't see it that way are told its not that way. You know, like the Russians and Communist countries like China and North Korea. Kind of a pattern there..

 

[dublinbluenose]

lets start with the Crimean vote to join Russia for example. Then the referendums in the newly acquired areas subsequently.

You will claim all those voters in these illegal elections were held at gunpoint, and that I am afraid, is where my discussion with you on the issue ends.

So no actual evidence other than universally discredited elections.

 

[peteblue]

Oh, so like Danzig in the late 30’s where the German speaking population (content before Hitler came to power) suddenly became anxious to join the Reich and a whole load of completely fictitious incidents were used as a justification for invasion.
Mmm.

Don’t mention the ‘little green men’ in Crimea …..

 

[Tramps_mate]

well he had a very large area filled with Russians, on his own doorstep, that was being shelled daily for years, and whose inhabitants desperately wanted to join Russia

So theres that.........

but apart from that, no, nothing I can think of really...

Please show some evidence of this because I find it difficult to believe.

 

[Kev The Rat]

So no actual evidence other than universally discredited elections.

laughable comments

 

[Kev The Rat]

Please show some evidence of this because I find it difficult to believe.

jesus christ mate.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

The only people who aren’t mentioned in your analysis are Ukrainians. What about what they want?

The southern and eastern areas of Ukraine have had no desire or potential for separatism prior to Russia destabilisement, and have long been politically, economically and socially integrated with the rest of Ukraine. Crimea could be viewed as different in that many Russians have retired there but only after they (Russia) had forcibly removed the native Tarter population.

 

[Alan Whittle]

Yes I want the Russians to win because primarily I believe they have genuine interests in that area which involve its own security while we have no interest whatsoever but insist on meddling. The only party that has 'no reason' to be involved is the west.
Furthermore I believe in the concept of the Balanced of Power and from it I believe justice and order can emerge.

So what are these “genuine interests” that you believe and how exactly do they involve “it’s own security” ?
The “Balanced of Power” has been enhanced how by the unprovoked invasion and please explain the “justice” and “order” will effect Ukrainian nationals if Russia prevails?

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Interested in natural resources just like we are. That is all this war is about.

But that does not give them the right to invade. The fact you cant see that is incredible in my opinion.

I used to like Putin as I thought he did well speaking out against the corrupt West etc etc. and didn't stand for their crap.

However this war is completely undefendable. Putin IS the bad guy. The only people that don't see it that way are told its not that way. You know, like the Russians and Communist countries like China and North Korea. Kind of a pattern there..

As is obvious and admitted by Prigozhin.

 

[Prevenger17]

Yes I want the Russians to win because primarily I believe they have genuine interests in that area which involve its own security, while we have no interest whatsoever but insist on meddling. The only party that has 'no reason' to be involved is the west.

I am not Russian, in fact born and bred here, but its interesting that you frame this from a strictly nationalist perspective which kind of indicates that is the only angle you can only rationally expect this debate to be fought, probably including your own. I say that not that I think you are Ukrainian but have adopted a typically anglo-saxon perspective which is anti-Russian for historical imperialist reasons.

Its well-known for example that Churchill himself took an anti-German view in WW2 not out of any serious issue with the Germans on ideological grounds, but that he saw it as a challenge to empire, so we have form in that sphere.

Furthermore I believe in the concept of the Balanced of Power and from it I believe justice and order can emerge. Without it we have what we have now, is one power trying to force themselves on everyone else, wether they like it or not.

And by the way, it is not clear to 'everyone' that Putin is the bad guy here, I would guess about 70% of the worlds population dont view it that way at all.

Lol. Dance for me clown

 

[Kev The Rat]

So what are these “genuine interests” that you believe and how exactly do they involve “it’s own security” ?
The “Balanced of Power” has been enhanced how by the unprovoked invasion and please explain the “justice” and “order” will effect Ukrainian nationals if Russia prevails?

I just gave a list of reasons after that to explain what the reasons were, I am not going to repeat them if you dont think they are genuine reasons.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

and that was no longer the case by 2014

Because Putin’s little green men had infiltrated the eastern militia groups and were actively stirring up trouble and providing them with arms and ammunition.

Putin planned and orchestrated this invasion way before 2014.