Current Affairs Ukraine

Status
Not open for further replies.
peteblue said:
Peace settlements are normally imposed by the victors upon the losers of a war…..
Click to expand...
Not necessarily a total sum game.

Russia get's its buffer zone...which in rality it has now and wont be shifted from...and Ukraine hets its chance for reconstruction.

I said yesterday that it might entail Zelensky being dumped first as he is a wartime leader - a bg character - and not a career politician used to statecraft.
 
davek said:
Not necessarily a total sum game.

Russia get's its buffer zone...which in rality it has now and wont be shifted from...and Ukraine hets its chance for reconstruction.

I said yesterday that it might entail Zelensky being dumped first as he is a wartime leader - a bg character - and not a career politician used to statecraft.
Click to expand...

I’m not sure what the population of Ukraine would accept tbh. They were given guarantees by the USA, U.K. and Russia of protection if they gave up their nuclear weapons. That didn’t turn out too well. They also had the Minsk agreements negotiated by France, Germany, Ukraine and Russia, again worthless. Russia doesn’t have a buffer zone anymore, it used to have the whole of Eastern Europe, now it has Belarus, even Finland has joined NATO and opened up another NATO border. As long as the West doesn’t cave in, and tbh I wouldn’t trust France or Germany, then eventually Ukraine will win.

I really don’t believe Ukraine will give up. Their cities and people have been pulverised but they are up for the fight. The general Russian population have suffered nothing. But may do if it continues. If there is to be a change of leader I think it will happen in Russia before Ukraine…….
 
It's a miltary superpower fighting in what it believes to be its backyard.

There's no way Russia well step back from this or be defeated IMO. That would need NATO involvement in terms of boots on the gorund and that isn;t part of the script.

NATO might want this to go on and on and degrading, they hope, Russia. But the best outcome for ordinary Ukrainians is a negotiated settlement and for their country to get back to normal with hopes of a better future. I bet they'd vote for that too.
 
davek said:
It's a miltary superpower fighting in what it believes to be its backyard.

There's no way Russia well step back from this or be defeated IMO. That would need NATO involvement in terms of boots on the gorund and that isn;t part of the script.

NATO might want this to go on and on and degrading, they hope, Russia. But the best outcome for ordinary Ukrainians is a negotiated settlement and for their country to get back to normal with hopes of a better future. I bet they'd vote for that too.
Click to expand...
the 'theory' is NATO/the west is going to bleed Russia white, however this is just a means of avoiding the reality of the situation which is that they are powerless to prevent Russian control, of at a minimum the areas that are now part of the Russian Federation or, if they are so inclined, to go further west. Although the latter I suspect is off the agenda for them as they are really only concerned with Donbas as thats where the majority of Russian speakers are. Odessa is Russian as well of course, but not sure thats on their radar.
 
peteblue said:
I’m not sure what the population of Ukraine would accept tbh. They were given guarantees by the USA, U.K. and Russia of protection if they gave up their nuclear weapons. That didn’t turn out too well. They also had the Minsk agreements negotiated by France, Germany, Ukraine and Russia, again worthless. Russia doesn’t have a buffer zone anymore, it used to have the whole of Eastern Europe, now it has Belarus, even Finland has joined NATO and opened up another NATO border. As long as the West doesn’t cave in, and tbh I wouldn’t trust France or Germany, then eventually Ukraine will win.

I really don’t believe Ukraine will give up. Their cities and people have been pulverised but they are up for the fight. The general Russian population have suffered nothing. But may do if it continues. If there is to be a change of leader I think it will happen in Russia before Ukraine…….
Click to expand...
Sadly, this I do agree with.
 
Kev The Rat said:
the 'theory' is NATO/the west is going to bleed Russia white, however this is just a means of avoiding the reality of the situation which is that they are powerless to prevent Russian control, of at a minimum the areas that are now part of the Russian Federation or, if they are so inclined, to go further west. Although the latter I suspect is off the agenda for them as they are really only concerned with Donbas as thats where the majority of Russian speakers are. Odessa is Russian as well of course, but not sure thats on their radar.
Click to expand...
They also claim Transnistria in Moldova. If there's movement against that it could escalate matters I suppose.
 
davek said:
It's a miltary superpower fighting in what it believes to be its backyard.

There's no way Russia well step back from this or be defeated IMO. That would need NATO involvement in terms of boots on the gorund and that isn;t part of the script.

NATO might want this to go on and on and degrading, they hope, Russia. But the best outcome for ordinary Ukrainians is a negotiated settlement and for their country to get back to normal with hopes of a better future. I bet they'd vote for that too.
Click to expand...

No, they are a nuclear power, no argument. Ukraine has demonstrated that they are not a military superpower. They surrounded Ukraine on two sides and are being pushed back. Their kit, tanks etc have been greatly diminished, their navy dare not sail anywhere close to Ukraine,their airforce is mostly invisible. Their troops are drawn from prisons as more than 120,000 of their regular troops have died with x2 or x3 injured. Men are leaving Russia to escape the draft and they have raised the age limits for recruits. They are running out of missiles ,their most effective attacks are done by drones supplied by Iran, their munitions and support from China. They blew up the dam to give themselves cover for retreat, they hold the nuclear power station as a nuclear threat to the west, but the wind can blow in more than one direction. As it stands Russia will be beaten and I think they know it. Do European and NATO countries fear Russia as they did five or ten years ago, I doubt it. Now it’s about saving face and for Putin to keep his job and not fall out of a window. The world has moved on……
 
peteblue said:
No, they are a nuclear power, no argument. Ukraine has demonstrated that they are not a military superpower. They surrounded Ukraine on two sides and are being pushed back. Their kit, tanks etc have been greatly diminished, their navy dare not sail anywhere close to Ukraine,their airforce is mostly invisible. Their troops are drawn from prisons as more than 120,000 of their regular troops have died with x2 or x3 injured. Men are leaving Russia to escape the draft and they have raised the age limits for recruits. They are running out of missiles ,their most effective attacks are done by drones supplied by Iran, their munitions and support from China. They blew up the dam to give themselves cover for retreat, they hold the nuclear power station as a nuclear threat to the west, but the wind can blow in more than one direction. As it stands Russia will be beaten and I think they know it. Do European and NATO countries fear Russia as they did five or ten years ago, I doubt it. Now it’s about saving face and for Putin to keep his job and not fall out of a window. The world has moved on……
Click to expand...
If I wanted to read/hear British media propaganda I’d just go to the BBC. There’s no need for you to regurgitate it here.

Oh and you forgot to mention ‘gas station with nukes’ :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

→ Log in 🔑 Register
🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top