Current Affairs Ukraine

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The solution to ending this conflict is for Ukraine to give up the Eastern region of Donbas and Luhansk and let Russia keep Crimea. Xi Jinping may have to lead on this and convince both sides that this is the only way. He has been speaking to Zelinsky today.
That is a victory for Vlad and a loss for Ukraine. I'm with Zelenskiy on this one, do one Vlad you tit.

However, something has to give. Xi being on the phone today is hopefully a massive step forward towards "peace" in Ukraine.

The issue is, even if a agreement were reached tomorrow, what does the world do with Putin? He is never going to be welcomed back and must never be allowed to rearm Russia in the way he will want. Sanctions must only be removed with agreements in place upon Russias behaviour.

It is going to be a loooong road I feel.
 
I hear what you're saying but Russia won't stop, unfortunately. There is only so far the USA/UK/NATO will keep going with their proxy war until politically it becomes untenable. Putin will be patient. It would be best to offer him a deal now, one in which he feels the USA/UK/NATO are not involved, hence Xi! The areas I mentioned are, dare I say it, more Russian in their DNA anyway. They never wanted to be in the EU or NATO.

Also, there is the question of the huge gas deposits that have yet to be extracted. Shell and Exonn had done deals before this war to bring the infrastructure required to Ukraine so that they could then extract and deliver Gas to Europe! Ukraine's economy was forecasted to grow exponentially due to this. Mr. Putin did not like this. Any deal would involve him getting some or all of that gas!
 
I hear what you're saying but Russia won't stop, unfortunately. There is only so far the USA/UK/NATO will keep going with their proxy war until politically it becomes untenable. Putin will be patient. It would be best to offer him a deal now, one in which he feels the USA/UK/NATO are not involved, hence Xi! The areas I mentioned are, dare I say it, more Russian in their DNA anyway. They never wanted to be in the EU or NATO.

Also, there is the question of the huge gas deposits that have yet to be extracted. Shell and Exonn had done deals before this war to bring the infrastructure required to Ukraine so that they could then extract and deliver Gas to Europe! Ukraine's economy was forecasted to grow exponentially due to this. Mr. Putin did not like this. Any deal would involve him getting some or all of that gas!
Should we have let Germany keep Poland, Norway and France in WWII? They weren't planning to stop, either.
 
Should we have let Germany keep Poland, Norway and France in WWII? They weren't planning to stop, either.
I hear you but this is different. Before 1991 the whole of Ukraine was a part of Russia. Plus Eastern Ukraine is like a different country to Western Ukraine both culturally and politically. There has been a civil war between the East and West for many years now. Most citizens in Donbas and Luhansk welcome their new Russian passports.

Also in 1939 there wasn't the spectre of nuclear annihilation.

Hope you can begin to see what i'm trying to convey.
 
I hear what you're saying but Russia won't stop, unfortunately. There is only so far the USA/UK/NATO will keep going with their proxy war until politically it becomes untenable. Putin will be patient. It would be best to offer him a deal now, one in which he feels the USA/UK/NATO are not involved, hence Xi! The areas I mentioned are, dare I say it, more Russian in their DNA anyway. They never wanted to be in the EU or NATO.

Also, there is the question of the huge gas deposits that have yet to be extracted. Shell and Exonn had done deals before this war to bring the infrastructure required to Ukraine so that they could then extract and deliver Gas to Europe! Ukraine's economy was forecasted to grow exponentially due to this. Mr. Putin did not like this. Any deal would involve him getting some or all of that gas!
Do you think Ukraine should just bend over then?
 
I hear you but this is different. Before 1991 the whole of Ukraine was a part of Russia. Plus Eastern Ukraine is like a different country to Western Ukraine both culturally and politically. There has been a civil war between the East and West for many years now. Most citizens in Donbas and Luhansk welcome their new Russian passports.

Also in 1939 there wasn't the spectre of nuclear annihilation.

Hope you can begin to see what i'm trying to convey.
Just want to call bullshit on this. Pre 1991 Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union not part of Russia. Read up on what actually went down rather than parrot the Russia Today talking points.
 
I hear you but this is different. Before 1991 the whole of Ukraine was a part of Russia. Plus Eastern Ukraine is like a different country to Western Ukraine both culturally and politically. There has been a civil war between the East and West for many years now. Most citizens in Donbas and Luhansk welcome their new Russian passports.

Also in 1939 there wasn't the spectre of nuclear annihilation.

Hope you can begin to see what i'm trying to convey.
Sorry but that's a truly awful excuse, Ukraine was part of the USSR before 1991 because it was subjugated by a series of tyrants - not because Ukranians wanted that. Self determination matters.

Ireland was part of the United Kingdom for over 120 years, if the UK decided tomorrow to invade Ireland, commit genocide, pillage and rape everything in sight, would we be justified in saying "well, it used to be ours, so we want it back!"? And would the international community be right to back down to our demands because we have the capability to unleash nuclear devastation upon anybody who dares to challenge us? Absolutely not.

Ukraine belongs to Ukrainians, not a despotic Russian fascist with delusions of grandeur.
 
Just want to call bullshit on this. Pre 1991 Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union not part of Russia. Read up on what actually went down rather than parrot the Russia Today talking points.
I should've said USSR or Soviet Union and not Russia, my bad. The USSR was in existance from 1922 to 1991. However my simple mistake doesnt change the jist of what I was trying to say in my post. Pity you had to be nasty.
 
Practical solution = give in to all of Russia’s demands.

You think they’d stop there?
The only way they'd be stopped is by ensuring that Ukraine and all border countries in Europe and potentially in Asia get strengthened past what Russia could even consider any more aggressions.

However that'd still leave Ukraine @#£%ed over royally. I suspect that for this to end, the Donbass region will be "independent" in name yet vassels of Russia and Crimea will become accepted as Russia proper. Russia will have to cough up a lot of cash for this and that would go to rebuilding Ukraine. It ain't fair, but what is?

Ukraine will require security commitments and I would guess at associate membership of NATO which in essence is NATO but can be sold back in Moscow.

Can't see any of this happening until Ukraine's backers can't see the returns on this. Russia will keep on for as long as it takes or until the defenestrations hit Putin and his cabal.

Longer run, I'm guessing that until Putin and his cronies exit the stage then we're not going to see any big rapprochement between Russia and the west. Hopefully when we get the next re-set with Russia, we'll not be money laundering and enabling criminal state behaviour like we have the last couple of decades- we need to become friends again but without promoting the dirty side of the current regime and bringing a more normalised Russia back into the fold.

Meanwhile, hundreds of kids are getting slaughtered daily for the ambitions of that ratbag Putin. It's a kin mess.
 
Sorry but that's a truly awful excuse, Ukraine was part of the USSR before 1991 because it was subjugated by a series of tyrants - not because Ukranians wanted that. Self determination matters.

Ireland was part of the United Kingdom for over 120 years, if the UK decided tomorrow to invade Ireland, commit genocide, pillage and rape everything in sight, would we be justified in saying "well, it used to be ours, so we want it back!"? And would the international community be right to back down to our demands because we have the capability to unleash nuclear devastation upon anybody who dares to challenge us? Absolutely not.

Ukraine belongs to Ukrainians, not a despotic Russian fascist with delusions of grandeur.

Bravo x 2.
 
Over time Eastern European countries that were once part of the Warsaw Pact one by one started joining Nato. Strategically from a defence perspective, this wasn't good news for Russia as a lot of these countries border it and provided a kind of defensive shield. Also, there are no mountains in eastern Ukraine, which means the great expanse of flatland that is the European Plain is an inviting territory for potential invaders. Russia has been attacked through this corridor quite a few times throughout history (WW2). Ukraine is the last barrier to Russia's security. This is another reason why Putin wants total control of Ukraine. This is why he paid Viktor Yanukovych (Ukraine's president back in 2014) a large sum of money to stop him from signing up Ukraine to EU/NATO. This is what caused the uprising and subsequent civil unrest.

 
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