Current Affairs Ukraine

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tsubaki said:
IIRC the Ukrainians have very heavy machine guns (the KPV for example) which would be ideal for this sort of thing, as would the old multiple .50 mounts used in WW2 and Korea. All you need then is simple detection equipment and you should be good to go against these sorts of targets.
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The weapons would be effective, although it requires the drone to be in range of said heavy weapons. The DsHK had an effective range of 2,000m/6,500ft.

My point is that you'd need a significant number of these weapons to cover enough arcs to halt most of them. It's a lot of manpower and drain on resources.

I'm not saying the Ukrainians should completely ignore them, but it's Russian's intention to try and divert precious resources away from key tasks.

@Mutzo Nutzo mentions suitable defensive systems, however until they're in place (and in adequate quantities) it's either small arms, MANPADS or SAMS.

The latter are costly and in relative short supply. My point, is it worth wasting them?
 
PhilM said:
What they're countering it with will depend on the altitude. They're pretty slow (100mph-130mph) but apparently have a service ceiling of up to 3,500ft.

They may fly lower than this, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility that it'll exceed the effective range of most rifles in the Ukrainian arsenal.

So we're talking about heavier calibre weapons, and that would need to be in the right place; to get coverage, it'd be really, really difficult to effectively do so.

Additionally, it's very costly to shoot these things even with MANPADS, let alone larger defence systems. You're talking about tens of thousands of dollars.

They'd offer better coverage, but it is worth wasting these weapons against what's likely to be affective against soft targets, with the key ones already defended.

It may be great to hit them down for kudos, however until a system can adequately put in place I think they'll let a few through and perhaps take the hit.

To waste their arsenal on them is exactly what Russia will want, as they'll have a better chance with their fixed wing aircraft and cruise missiles.
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Pretty much this, the drones seem to be being used in order to drain resources and for a terror effect in essence - second is unpalatable but sadly a true factor of all warfare the main damage to infrastructure is being caused not by drones but by other munitions.

Asking civilians to shoot them down though is bloody idiotic as it's likely to cause more injuries to the population having them do so.

Think initially they where being used to draw out positions if aa systems, if the Ukranians are smart they'd have quickly cottoned into that though...
 
tsubaki said:
With the usual provisos about the source of the first tweet and the person it reports on, if that is what he has said then it is potentially welcome and a bit of a change from previous statements - it is a much more accurate description of the immediate pre-war Ukrainian political scene than just calling them Nazis was, and it makes a separation between the leadership and the neo-Nazis.

By that I mean the torchlight parades happened, as did the people walking around with Nazi symbols, and the government did at least acquiesce to the Neo-Nazi groups (perhaps support is a bit much, I am not sure the government could realistically have done much).
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That's the thing that grates with me not just with me in here but in general.


You can disagree with the invasion, certain actions done, innocents lives destroyed, and admit that attrocities have been committed, but to mention anything on the Ukranian side that is bad makes you a Putin fanboy and apologist. To try to show context makes you an apologist, to highlight Ukranian actions before 2022 or supporting nations actions makes you guilty of whataboutism. And the final caveat if 'but none of this happens if Russia doesn't invade' ignores the actual reality of 2014 and it's events, of 2014-22 and actions done.

To not go down on bended knee and beg for forgiveness for any action from Russia equates to support, to criticise the Ukranian government or its policies and actions makes you a Putin Nazi, to suggest anyone other than Russia has any culpability in anything is a grievous sin.

Ok, so here is some whataboutism - don't care who calls it such either.

The exact same governments supporting Ukraine also have within the last five years done the vast majority of the same actions against countries they are now decrying..
Civilians in Russian held territory are daily bring targeted and killed by Ukraine, prior to 2022 civilians had been raped murdered and tortured by members of certain far right groups in Ukraine.
Bandera and certain other Ukranians who are unquestionably Nazis and guilty of absolute genocidal actions are now glorified and honoured in Ukraine.

The past week sympathy for the people of Kiev, same people who a day earlier had been posting selfies by the pre printed picture of the Crimean bridge bombing - no criticism of the second st all.

The Zelensky government is absolutely rotten to the core, doesn't serve the Ukranian people whatsoever, it gave in within weeks to the radical far right in 2019 after being threatened.

This will get all sorts of comments slagging me off I know, I honestly don't gaf, way too many people either without a clue or with a serious lack of any grasp of reality to the situation from BOTH sides on here.
 
bluestevon said:
@Diogenes the Cynic laughing at that and have the balls to say anything to me - just wow mate, what a little odious cretin. The pilot was 150m away from a school with over 600 pupils, guess If it hit that it'd been a ROFL for you.
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Have the balls to say anything to you?

You are a fake little Russian pip squeak mate, lets not pretend you are some kind of Czar.
 
MaupsGoat said:
Have the balls to say anything to you?

You are a fake little Russian pip squeak mate, lets not pretend you are some kind of Czar.
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And frankly goat you are a pretty uneducated, Ill informed bloke who posts on a football forum but hey you have a Russian mate who smuggles people out the country so are an expert.

Come see me in a few years when the extent of what Ukraine did comes out buddy, you're cheering on [Poor language removed] Nazis
 
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