Current Affairs Ukraine
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bluestevon
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Isn't 60k dead the figures from Ukraine mate on Russian dead, the same Ukraine that has its own dead at a fraction of that? I believe it about as much as I believe the figures Russia release on Ukraine dead compared to Russians.
Interesting though that the release of prisoners is being complicated by Russia having a much greater proportion of POWs, up to a 5:1 ratio on some estimates (likely exaggerated at that ratio).
Why exactly are so many more Ukrainians been captured than Russians given the stories of mass Russian surrenders...
There's no doubting Russia was the aggressor (regardless of provocation that's true still) there's no doubt atrocities have been committed (no I don't believe to the extent that's been getting pumped out by Ukraine and the media, but nonetheless they've occured)
But that doesn't give carte blanche to not also hold a candle to the other side in the conflict.
Ministers on record as stating they outright lied about attrocities to foster more support from the west.
Targeting of civilians in occupied areas.
Summary executions without trial of "traitors and collaborators"
Death lists which have led to scores of assassinations.
Suppression/banning of any none far right political parties. Including the arrest of politicians.
Complete state control of all media organisations inside Ukraine. Including the arrest of many journalists, activists.
Executions of POWs, torture of POWs.
The state sponsored promotion of Bandera and others of similar ilk as national hero's to be honoured, akin to Germany sticking road signs up and statues in honour of Goebbels.
The fact that the SBU is basically rounding up everyone they can in liberated areas for questioning - given their reputation a lot of those will end up in ditches.
It'll get thrown at me again I'm a Putin apologist etc, even though nothing I've said is saying I agree with what's happening, nothing I'm saying in fact is pro Putin here in the slightest.
What I am saying though is look at the other side as well, it's possible to be against Russia, support the Ukrainian people without necessarily supporting those in charge of Ukraine or actions they are doing and have been doing for years.
The hard counter to this is always the same, well if Putin didn't invade none of it would have happened, is that true - in part, but can get into an eternal game of whataboutism such is the history over even the past 35 years in that area.
bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
Well, you've just shown you measure civilian life differently depending if they're them or us mate.
Can lol respond all you want mate, in response to someone showing an attack on a bus by Ukraine killing civilians you responded "cry me a River" in any sense of the word that's an abhorrent response.
No,mate. You constantly ignore Putins mass murder and jump on any other shred of desperation flag weaving bollox you can.
Hold your hands up, admit this is all one mans fault and should not be happenning, instead of mass whataboutery.
bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
What scares you so very much about actually looking at any others actions except Putin mate?
Look through the thread, said multiple times it's wrong, I don't agree and any death of any civilian is a tragedy that could have been avoided.
but one man's fault, it's frankly laughable for any adult to boil something as complicated as this down to a simple narrative.
one February day a nice peaceful world was rocked when Putin got outta bed and said hey guys I'm gonna invade Ukraine because I feel like it today. Let's make up some fictitious reasons for our unprovoked war.
Zelensky regrets the Budapest memorandum - banning Ukraine from having nuclear weapons..
"Ukraine President Zelensky says that Ukraine will go back to having nuclear weapons like they did before 1994 unless the US lives to the guarantees of protection made in the Budapest Memo. Ukraine had 1000 soviet nuclear weapons. What did Ukraine keep that would short cut a return to being a nuclear power. Even with bombers, nuclear weapons can be delivered by other means if one side chose it as means of all out fighting.
Since 2014, Ukraine has tried three times to convene consultations with the guarantor states of the Budapest Memorandum. Three times without success. Today Ukraine will do it for the fourth time. I, as President, will do this for the first time. But both Ukraine and I are doing this for the last time. I am initiating consultations in the framework of the Budapest Memorandum. The Minister of Foreign Affairs was commissioned to convene them. If they do not happen again or their results do not guarantee security for our country, Ukraine will have every right to believe that the Budapest Memorandum is not working and all the package decisions of 1994 are in doubt.
Ukraine intends to develop its own nuclear weapons, and it is not an empty bravado. Ukraine indeed has Soviet nuclear technologies and delivery systems for such weapons, including aviation and Tochka-U tactical missiles, developed back in the Soviet; their range is over 100 km, but they will develop even longer-range ones, it is only a matter of time. There is groundwork from Soviet era.
SOURCES – Kyiv Independent
Written by Brian Wang, Nextbigfuture.com
Zelensky has shown his unstable hand, by calling on NATO to change tact, and to attack Russia with conventional or nuclear weapons. No wonder Lavrov says this,
ZELENSKY'S TALK ABOUT PREEMPTIVE ATTACKS AGAINST RUSSIA HIGHLIGHTS THE NEED FOR A SPECIAL MILITARY OPERATION.
"Ukraine President Zelensky says that Ukraine will go back to having nuclear weapons like they did before 1994 unless the US lives to the guarantees of protection made in the Budapest Memo. Ukraine had 1000 soviet nuclear weapons. What did Ukraine keep that would short cut a return to being a nuclear power. Even with bombers, nuclear weapons can be delivered by other means if one side chose it as means of all out fighting.
Since 2014, Ukraine has tried three times to convene consultations with the guarantor states of the Budapest Memorandum. Three times without success. Today Ukraine will do it for the fourth time. I, as President, will do this for the first time. But both Ukraine and I are doing this for the last time. I am initiating consultations in the framework of the Budapest Memorandum. The Minister of Foreign Affairs was commissioned to convene them. If they do not happen again or their results do not guarantee security for our country, Ukraine will have every right to believe that the Budapest Memorandum is not working and all the package decisions of 1994 are in doubt.
Ukraine intends to develop its own nuclear weapons, and it is not an empty bravado. Ukraine indeed has Soviet nuclear technologies and delivery systems for such weapons, including aviation and Tochka-U tactical missiles, developed back in the Soviet; their range is over 100 km, but they will develop even longer-range ones, it is only a matter of time. There is groundwork from Soviet era.
SOURCES – Kyiv Independent
Written by Brian Wang, Nextbigfuture.com
Zelensky has shown his unstable hand, by calling on NATO to change tact, and to attack Russia with conventional or nuclear weapons. No wonder Lavrov says this,
ZELENSKY'S TALK ABOUT PREEMPTIVE ATTACKS AGAINST RUSSIA HIGHLIGHTS THE NEED FOR A SPECIAL MILITARY OPERATION.
You need to get out of Russia and see the real picture. You are being fed some whoppers there, mate. Sorry, but it is true.
Of course he does. Vlad would not be threatening nukes quite so brazenly if Uke also had them. It is common sense to any one but vlad sympathisers and apologists
Hw dare they want to defend themselves....
bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
Just highlight the stuff I've said that's wrong mate, and I'll provide links to every one
It is the links that are the issue. Earlier this morning you were telling us that Russia were winning this and about to turn it all around. You are in a bizarre echo chamber (I can guess whos feeding it) and its not healthy.
larrygobfiend
Player Valuation: £40m
There’s only one bad guy in all of this and it isn’t the country that was subjected to a man-made famine in 1932 that killed millions.
I’ve seen footage of protesters in Russia being violently dragged onto busses.
I’ve seen pictures of entire towns flattened to the ground in Ukraine.
You say a lot, but you don’t back it up with visual evidence.
Basically, I think you’re full of crap
OK, you can take it back to 2014, still Vlads actions. No vlad - no war. He's got form, hes killed, probably millions, certainly many hundreds of thousands, so, for you to cite Ukrainds actions while defending their nation is just bizarre.
DO all people in Russia get fed the same stuff as you?
It doesnt sit well with me to talk like this BTW, im just pretty pi55ed off at the whole thing.
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Bots are out in force today. Must be potatoes and cabbage for tea.
Spadge Vernacular
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