Current Affairs Ukraine

[stipe]

It's really quite surreal to see some of the posters on this thread virtually wetting themselves with excitement at the prospect of much of mainland Europe becoming a nuclear wasteland.

If nukes start flying, everything in Europe, Russia and America gonna become nuclear wasteland.

And now in his speech Putin said "United States created a precedent for the use of nuclear weapons."

Could be excuse for using them, and if he starts, we all know it not gonna stop there

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I think the west is smelling blood now, this is not going to stop until Russia is chased out of the Ukraine, Putin has gone, and Russia becomes subservient to the west, under the guise of democracy. I’m not sure if this wasn’t the plan all along, and was made known to Putin which instigated the invasion in the first place. How bloody and cataclysmic it becomes is down to the Russian people and their fondness for Vlad

no

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Not sure it was as clear cut as that, however noises that Ukraine were about to join NATO appeared to trigger him enough

UKR were many, many years away from meeting the criteria to join NATO. It is just waffle mate, don't fall for it

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

It's really quite surreal to see some of the posters on this thread virtually wetting themselves with excitement at the prospect of much of mainland Europe becoming a nuclear wasteland.

Literlly, not a single poster has ever been happy at this prospect you burp and, lets face it, if it wasn't for your hero we'd be in another thread now, talking about Grifters, minor things that make you mad, fit birds or maybe even Everton.

Your apologies for this murderer are a disgrace

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

So, russia absorb parts of Ukraine, does this mean as the fighting continues Ukrainian action is then painted as an attack on the motherland? effectively an excuse to escalate use of arms?

Yep

 

[stipe]

UKR were many, many years away from meeting the criteria to join NATO. It is just waffle mate, don't fall for it

Key was that coup in 2014, Ukraine gone from defacto Russian protectorate (under Yanukovich) to be aligned with West. Of course it was also excuse for Russia to act and land grab

Same thing happened before WW1, when pro-Austrian Serbian King was murdered in 1903 and replaced with pro-Russian. It lead to path of assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand and start of WW1.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Key was that coup in 2014, Russia gone from defacto Russian protectorate (under Janukovich) to be aligned with West.

Same thing happened before WW1, when pro-Austrian Serbian King was murdered in 1903 and replaced with pro-Russian. It lead to path of assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand and start of WW1.

The annexation (coup) of the Crimea is still a crime.

 

[stipe]

The annexation (coup) of the Crimea is still a crime.

Yeah, as i said above, it was excuse for land grab. Same as this, how quickly they gone from various excuses about "de-nazification" and other crap to simply annexing territory, old fashioned land grab

 

[Martin Alvito]

Why are we discussing conventional warfare and dead Russian/Soviet leaders? The elephant in the room is this: what if Putin erases Kyiv in response to a violation of 'territorial sovereignty'?

What does the West do? Further escalation is unthinkable. Putin wins the game of brinksmanship on the spot, right?

If we turn Russia into a pariah state in reply and try to strangle Putin economically, does this not only delay the day of reckoning? If we try to get China and India on board, and they come back with, "Taiwan, the South China Sea, Kashmir and buzz off about fossil fuel emissions," then what?

Are we really down to our own one-shot gamble for resurrection of smuggling a suitcase bomb into Moscow without getting caught, and hoping cooler heads over there win out when the radioactive dust settles? I don't see a lot of other pathways forward besides rolling over.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Yeah, as i said above, it was excuse for land grab. Same as this, how quickly they gone from various excuses about "de-nazification" and other crap to simply annexing territory, old fashioned land grab

Absolutely. The irony is that the whole world can see this and yet he carries on regardless. Biden stating yesterday that he will NEVER recognise these annexed areas same as NATO and the EU. WTF does he expect will happen at the end of all this?

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Why are we discussing conventional warfare and dead Russian/Soviet leaders? The elephant in the room is this: what if Putin erases Kyiv in response to a violation of 'territorial sovereignty'?

What does the West do? Further escalation is unthinkable. Putin wins the game of brinksmanship on the spot, right?

If we turn Russia into a pariah state in reply and try to strangle Putin economically, does this not only delay the day of reckoning? If we try to get China and India on board, and they come back with, "Taiwan, the South China Sea, Kashmir and buzz off about fossil fuel emissions," then what?

Are we really down to our own one-shot gamble for resurrection of smuggling a suitcase bomb into Moscow without getting caught, and hoping cooler heads over there win out when the radioactive dust settles? I don't see a lot of other pathways forward besides rolling over.

Listening to Putin’s speech just now and gotta say I think he’s already made the decision to drop a tac nuke or two. Just a question of when not if.

Big question is how will NATO respond.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Listening to Putin’s speech just now and gotta say I think he’s already made the decision to drop a tac nuke or two. Just a question of when not if.

Big question is how will NATO respond.

OK, but there are still off-ramps in that scenario. They're not good ones, but they're there.

I'm not seeing any off-ramps if he gives that a pass and grabs the top of the bat straight away.

 

[Yarrgh]

Why are we discussing conventional warfare and dead Russian/Soviet leaders? The elephant in the room is this: what if Putin erases Kyiv in response to a violation of 'territorial sovereignty'?

What does the West do? Further escalation is unthinkable. Putin wins the game of brinksmanship on the spot, right?

If we turn Russia into a pariah state in reply and try to strangle Putin economically, does this not only delay the day of reckoning? If we try to get China and India on board, and they come back with, "Taiwan, the South China Sea, Kashmir and buzz off about fossil fuel emissions," then what?

Are we really down to our own one-shot gamble for resurrection of smuggling a suitcase bomb into Moscow without getting caught, and hoping cooler heads over there win out when the radioactive dust settles? I don't see a lot of other pathways forward besides rolling over.

Well the west shouldn't take advice from this thread!

Time to de-escalate. Quickly.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

OK, but there are still off-ramps in that scenario. They're not good ones, but they're there.

I'm not seeing any off-ramps if he gives that a pass and grabs the top of the bat straight away.

Possible off ramp in the Tactical nuke scenario is that NATO’s response would be conventional. Massive but still conventional. Then press for negotiations

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Listening to Putin’s speech just now and gotta say I think he’s already made the decision to drop a tac nuke or two. Just a question of when not if.

Big question is how will NATO respond.

Watch Lyman updates and see if he hits the button. Then Russia is done one way or the other. War opinion down to 49% from over 90%. Add all borders closed to the Russian populace will cause more stress internally.