Top Four Possibility

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Watching is maul Wolfsburg in the Europa league a few years ago when they were flying high in the Bundesliga was one of the highlight of the Martinez era. Plus Ossies goal against Larrisa is one of my all time favourite goodison goals.

Two reasons why I'd be delighted to get Europa league
 
bol-uk said:
EL DOES have a neg effect on teams PL placings (weirdly, CL does not (due to squad size I presume)

Club Europa League games played in season Change in league position (places) Season
Newcastle 14 -11 2012-13
Newcastle 12 -9 2004-05
Bolton 10 -9 2007-08
Everton 2 -7 2005-06
Middlesbrough 15 -7 2005-06
West Ham 2 -6 2006-07
Newcastle 12 -6 2006-07
Tottenham 10 -6 2007-08
Portsmouth 6 -6 2008-09
Fulham 19 -5 2009-10
Blackburn 8 -4 2006-07
Everton 10 -3 2009-10
Swansea 12 -3 2013-14
Aston Villa 2 -3 2010-11
Bolton 8 -2 2005-06
Manchester City 16 -1 2008-09
Fulham 14 -1 2011-12
Stoke 12 -1 2011-12
Tottenham 12 -1 2012-13
Millwall 2 0 2004-05
Tottenham 10 0 2006-07
Everton 2 0 2008-09
Aston Villa 10 0 2008-09
Aston Villa 2 0 2009-10
Everton 10 1 2007-08
Liverpool 14 1 2010-11
Tottenham 8 1 2011-12
Liverpool 12 1 2012-13
Manchester City 12 2 2010-11
Blackburn Rovers 4 3 2007-08
Tottenham 8 3 2008-09
Middlesbrough 10 4 2004-05
  • If you look at Evertons first stint, we played twice and finished -7 (7 league places worse off) than the previous season.
  • There appears to be a massive correlation between the more you play and the more league positions you drop.
Click to expand...

This is a good analysis however there have been a number of clubs over the years which have traditionally occupied the top 4 spots (due to a superior squad/CL money)... the exact teams have shifted a bit but the premise is the same. As a result, clubs finishing 5-7th generally can't expect to finish much higher but there is a long way to fall, so I'd guess the average league position of a team finishing in the 5th-10th area falls on average, Europa league or not.

I could be wrong. Can't be arsed now but id be interested if you also look at the teams which finished top half in the league but didn't make Europa, and see if the numbers differ or look similar.
 
Tubey said:
Lack of financial incentive, the mental aspect of progressing through multiple competitions (see Leicester), extended travel (see our games in Kharkiv etc.), the requirement for a larger squad to deal meaningfully with multiple competitions increasing financial expenditure and increasing the risk of just "bringing bodies in for the sake of it", increased likelihood of player injuries etc.
Click to expand...

Valid points but I would argue;

Lack of financial incentive - There is plenty of financial incentive if you go far, not to mention the financial incentive of a CL place if you win it.
the mental aspect of progressing through multiple competitions - Surely we need to gain experience to deal with this at some point if we want to progress? How many clubs bypass EL, go straight into CL football and sustain it?
extended travel (see our games in Kharkiv etc.) - This might happen once or twice maximum. And even when it happened in 2014/15, we came back from a terrible night in Ukraine to win away at QPR on the Sunday.
the requirement for a larger squad to deal meaningfully with multiple competitions increasing financial expenditure- Increased financial expenditure for the squad? What? You mean like, win bonuses? Come off it.
and increasing the risk of just "bringing bodies in for the sake of it - I think if we've learnt anything about Koeman over the last two windows it's that he will absolutely not do this. It's more likely to just provide opportunities to our young players.
increased likelihood of player injuries etc - Possibly but avoidable if you manage the squad correctly.

I think the positives heavily outweigh the negatives, and I'm glad our board, manager and players feel the same way.
 
People are David Moyesing the hell out of this thread. Aim for 3rd and see where we fall.
 
LABlue2 said:
This is a good analysis however there have been a number of clubs over the years which have traditionally occupied the top 4 spots (due to a superior squad/CL money)... the exact teams have shifted a bit but the premise is the same. As a result, clubs finishing 5-7th generally can't expect to finish much higher but there is a long way to fall, so I'd guess the average league position of a team finishing in the 5th-10th area falls on average, Europa league or not.

I could be wrong. Can't be arsed now but id be interested if you also look at the teams which finished top half in the league but didn't make Europa, and see if the numbers differ or look similar.
Click to expand...

True. It is interesting that, some teams (the Rs for instance) rarely do well in the league when in Europe, and some do.
 
Tubey said:
Lack of financial incentive, the mental aspect of progressing through multiple competitions (see Leicester), extended travel (see our games in Kharkiv etc.), the requirement for a larger squad to deal meaningfully with multiple competitions increasing financial expenditure and increasing the risk of just "bringing bodies in for the sake of it", increased likelihood of player injuries etc.
Click to expand...

You could apply all those to the Champs league though
 
bol-uk said:
EL DOES have a neg effect on teams PL placings (weirdly, CL does not (due to squad size I presume)

Club Europa League games played in season Change in league position (places) Season
Newcastle 14 -11 2012-13
Newcastle 12 -9 2004-05
Bolton 10 -9 2007-08
Everton 2 -7 2005-06
Middlesbrough 15 -7 2005-06
West Ham 2 -6 2006-07
Newcastle 12 -6 2006-07
Tottenham 10 -6 2007-08
Portsmouth 6 -6 2008-09
Fulham 19 -5 2009-10
Blackburn 8 -4 2006-07
Everton 10 -3 2009-10
Swansea 12 -3 2013-14
Aston Villa 2 -3 2010-11
Bolton 8 -2 2005-06
Manchester City 16 -1 2008-09
Fulham 14 -1 2011-12
Stoke 12 -1 2011-12
Tottenham 12 -1 2012-13
Millwall 2 0 2004-05
Tottenham 10 0 2006-07
Everton 2 0 2008-09
Aston Villa 10 0 2008-09
Aston Villa 2 0 2009-10
Everton 10 1 2007-08
Liverpool 14 1 2010-11
Tottenham 8 1 2011-12
Liverpool 12 1 2012-13
Manchester City 12 2 2010-11
Blackburn Rovers 4 3 2007-08
Tottenham 8 3 2008-09
Middlesbrough 10 4 2004-05
  • If you look at Evertons first stint, we played twice and finished -7 (7 league places worse off) than the previous season.
  • There appears to be a massive correlation between the more you play and the more league positions you drop.
Click to expand...

So half the teams finished at worst one position worse off than previous year?
 
Mountfield1985 said:
Valid points but I would argue;

Lack of financial incentive - There is plenty of financial incentive if you go far, not to mention the financial incentive of a CL place if you win it.
the mental aspect of progressing through multiple competitions - Surely we need to gain experience to deal with this at some point if we want to progress? How many clubs bypass EL, go straight into CL football and sustain it?
extended travel (see our games in Kharkiv etc.) - This might happen once or twice maximum. And even when it happened in 2014/15, we came back from a terrible night in Ukraine to win away at QPR on the Sunday.
the requirement for a larger squad to deal meaningfully with multiple competitions increasing financial expenditure- Increased financial expenditure for the squad? What? You mean like, win bonuses? Come off it.
and increasing the risk of just "bringing bodies in for the sake of it - I think if we've learnt anything about Koeman over the last two windows it's that he will absolutely not do this. It's more likely to just provide opportunities to our young players.
increased likelihood of player injuries etc - Possibly but avoidable if you manage the squad correctly.

I think the positives heavily outweigh the negatives, and I'm glad our board, manager and players feel the same way.
Click to expand...


Not forgetting every negative there can be applied to champions league qualification.
Honestly some fans. No wonder we're so small time at times.
 
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