Current Affairs Tommy Robinson Bailed

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It’s genuinely worrying though that people can be that manipulated . Saying She’ll believe what she’s been told until it’s proved not to be true , the bloke has literally just told you seconds before It’s not true because it isn’t and she asks something why would I be told that ? As if the answer isn’t obvious .

This is the world though people just form opinions based on Facebook or what some bloke tells them , they don’t test themselves , read up on subjects, bother to learn about things or ever really challenge their brains . Maybe we just didn't see it but I’m sure in the past huge numbers of people weren’t that stupid , then again they probably were they just weren’t in my face ranting about their stupidity.

You're giving her too much credit. She's not being manipulated - she's believing what she wants to believe in, as she is a racist.

What she's basically saying is that her mind is pre-tuned to believe anything that fits her agenda as a racist, no matter how ludicrous it is.

The issue that social media and the like have given us is that politicians and media give people like this a platform, so they attract eachother and can act as a unit, where in the past they would have been laughed at and left to ramble to themselves and drink White Lightning every night of the week.

Idiots have been given a voice. What society needs to learn now is how to recognise when it's still an idiot making the noise and treat it with the disdain it deserves.

Unfortunately, we haven't reached that stage yet, and we're suffering Tommy Robinson, Trump, Brexit etc. etc. as a result.

That's the massive irony of this - you know where Trump, Robinson et al complain about the media? The truth is the media has been the biggest gift to them imaginable - when you get Nick Griffin invited on Question Time, alarm bells should have rung, but we allowed the circus to continue.
 
You're giving her too much credit. She's not being manipulated - she's believing what she wants to believe in, as she is a racist.

What she's basically saying is that her mind is pre-tuned to believe anything that fits her agenda as a racist, no matter how ludicrous it is.

The issue that social media and the like have given us is that politicians and media give people like this a platform, so they attract eachother and can act as a unit, where in the past they would have been laughed at and left to ramble to themselves and drink White Lightning every night of the week.

Idiots have been given a voice. What society needs to learn now is how to recognise when it's still an idiot making the noise and treat it with the disdain it deserves.

Unfortunately, we haven't reached that stage yet, and we're suffering Tommy Robinson, Trump, Brexit etc. etc. as a result.

That's the massive irony of this - you know where Trump, Robinson et al complain about the media? The truth is the media has been the biggest gift to them imaginable - when you get Nick Griffin invited on Question Time, alarm bells should have rung, but we allowed the circus to continue.

I agree with much of that absolutely on them being given a voice but i do think that some are manipulated, not necessarily from the point that they’re free thinking prior but from the point of confirmation bias really that ridiculous stories feed into their mindset .

I certainly agree on your media point and I’d also say when it comes to less traditional sources it’s noticeable that , whether with help or not , it’s the likes of trump , Brexit and Robinson that have successfully utilised social media significantly more than the other side.
 
The old political allegiances are being redrawn. Age is a big differentiator now. There are layers of working class communities, outside of big cities (which benefitted from EU & Labour money in the city centres, as well as the universification of society) that have many older and quite left behind members of society. At one end there are not a lot of opportunities for people, and at the other, the opportunities there are are now in areas which are more individualised, atomised or underhand.

I spoke to a bricky a couple of years back and he said in the 70's he was on a sites and there were hundreds of people with a shared sense of purpose, ethos, values and goals who relied upon one another. It was this sense of collectivism that underpinned the more left leaning ideas, not the fact he worked with his hands, or outside that made him working class. This is an idea the majority of the political spectrum can't grasp. Now he works on his own much more, he's almost self employed, he earns more (good luck to him) but depends solely on himself.

When people talk of Ukip winning "working class votes" often what they are talking about is how jobs that were typecast as working class are now quite middle class jobs is outlook, prospects and pay.

This shift isn't helped by huge sections of the left that don't really understand what's gone on. The worst aspects have embibed the language of neoliberalism around identity politics and just want to talk about themselves (and experiences that are another world to people who sympathise with Robinson). Others tactically just want to build strength where there are more receptive ideas, i.e. younger people in university cities.

There's an issue of gender here too. The left has been terrible on this and continues to be.

Either way there's a space for people like Robinson. He hasn't had to do a lot, but he looks the part. Much of the intellectual ground work has been done for him initially by the BNP and then latterly by Farage but he brings some glamour and swagger to the part. Sexual violence hasn't been taken seriously by the ruling elite in this country and the left have failed to take the issue seriously, so then the right get an opportunity to put a spin on it. You can see where he gets success from.

His supporters will be quite emboldened again, but they are not all fascists. Many are just frustrated the world has got worse for them over a generation and he gives them a narrative they can relate too. I sense until the left become confident enough to emerge out of their (our) bubble and start engaging with people he will continue to have a foothold.

Always good to read thoughtful analysis!


Laxley Lennon doesn’t give a flying one about child abuse. If he was genuinely concerned about child’s abuse he’d have been outside other trials that didn’t involve the accused having a brown face.

What other grooming gang scandals have there been lately? Not talking historical ones like BBC celebs or church molestry.


While it's undoubtedly true that Britain has moved to the right over the last 30+ years and Thatcherism struck a major blow to many communities, it is not been done so uniformly and I always take a slightly more optimistic analysis! I think many of the struggles for ideas now exist outside of the economic (which I'm not saying is a good thing as some do) but the anti-war movements have been extremely impressive. It's partly why I think the ruling class, and therefore sections of the Labour Party are so keen to box Corbyn in on the question.

I'd also say, particularly in the communities discussed neoliberal solutions to problems are not really accepted. It always makes me laugh when Tories argue that the Brexit vote was avowedly a Thatcherite-Neo-liberal vote. It was anything but, in reality it was a vote for more protectionism and they will struggle to sell such a vision back to said people (indeed this is much of the root of the problem they have).

However yes, the destruction of opportunities within those communities has led to a desperation and figures like Tommy Robinson being seen as a solution. I've always seen him as more Ernst Rohm than Hitler. When you reduce what being working class is, to doing physical work (that is not intellectually stimulating) and enjoying a punch up (which is about as good as it gets for most thinkers) he fits that void. The fact that he's a small business owner and relatively well off is often lost in such an analysis. The left contributed to this too, by often becoming fixated on what working class meant and not offering enough detail beyond cliches.

The truth is, the modern working class work for deliveroo and are increasingly part of the gig economy. The experience of university for students (nearly 50% of young people) is a far more likely experience than working in construction and should be seen as such. However the left needs to find policy and solutions for how it can collectivise areas it's weak in and re build communal bonds if it is to truly defeat the ideas of your Tommy Robinsons. The taboo around Nazism weakens with every generation.

That is the great challenge for any Corbyn government. To move beyond it's strongholds and pandering to it's core voters, and develop solutions in suburban areas and smaller towns.

Aye, Tommy might appear of predictable ilk: organised hooliganism, BNP/EDL, anti-Islam, samey criminal record...but he has an eloquence and fierce logic which isn't to be underestimated by those who oppose him. He also holds cards which go against nazism-ideals (being pro-Israel, for example), this throws off name-callers.

The Left haven't been ready for this recent birth of Right/conservative US/UK intellects (Tommy, Milo, Shapiro, Murray, Sargon, Rubin, Peterson etc). The Left only feel instinctively against them and show it in spades. This isn't a clever strategy.
 
What other grooming gang scandals have there been lately? Not talking historical ones like BBC celebs or church molestry.




Aye, Tommy might appear of predictable ilk: organised hooliganism, BNP/EDL, anti-Islam, samey criminal record...but he has an eloquence and fierce logic which isn't to be underestimated by those who oppose him. He also holds cards which go against nazism-ideals (being pro-Israel, for example), this throws off name-callers.

The Left haven't been ready for this recent birth of Right/conservative US/UK intellects (Tommy, Milo, Shapiro, Murray, Sargon, Rubin, Peterson etc). The Left only feel instinctively against them and show it in spades. This isn't a clever strategy.

Have a read of this;

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/what-do-we-know-about-the-ethnicity-of-sexual-abuse-gangs
 


Your link rather supports Robinson's views, as we know that "Type 2" has always been around and will always be around, but that "Type 1" (i.e. grooming gangs) has hugely increased recently, for the reasons the article implies (the same reasons Tommy is shouting).


Here's the whole article:
Sarah Champion, the Labour MP for Rotherham, resigned from her position as shadow women and equalities minister on Wednesday over what she called her “extremely poor choice of words” in an article she wrote for The Sun.

The piece was written after 17 men and one woman were found guilty of committing nearly 100 offences, including rape, against vulnerable women and girls in Newcastle.

Ms Champion’s article stated that “Britain has a problem with British Pakistani men raping and exploiting white girls”.

Is that a fair characterisation? FactCheck looks at the statistics relating to sexual abuse and grooming gangs.
The background

In recent years, there have been a number of high-profile cases in which groups of predominantly Asian men have been found exploiting girls and/or young women for sex.

In 2012, nine men were jailed for running an exploitation ring in Rochdale, abusing girls as young as 13. Eight of those men were of Pakistani origin; the remaining one was from Afghanistan.

Earlier this year, six men were convicted of abusing two girls in Rotherham between 1999 and 2001. All of the men convicted were British-Pakistani.
Types of sexual abuse by groups

In 2013, CEOP published a study looking at “contact sexual offending against children by non-related adults”. They found that there are two types of group-based abuse.

“Type 1” group abuse involves targeting a victim, or victims, based on their vulnerability.

CEOP says: “The focus here appears to be on the sexual abuse of teenagers and young adults on the basis of their vulnerability, rather than as a result of a specific preferential sexual interest in children […] CEOP assesses that type 1 offenders are unlikely to identify themselves as having a sexual interest in children, but molest children because they are vulnerable to sexual exploitation.”

“Type 2” group abusers are defined as having “a longstanding sexual interest in children”.

Type 2 groups operate in a way that’s often characterised as a paedophile “ring”. In other words, these offenders are not simply targeting children because they are vulnerable, but because they are children.
What do we know about the ethnicity of group abusers?

The latest data we have on this is from the 2013 CEOP study. It reports 57 cases of Type 1 group abuse in 2012, and police provided ethnicity data on 52 of these.

Half of those Type 1 cases involved all-Asian groups. 21 per cent were all-white groups, and 17 per cent were groups containing multiple ethnicities.

75 per cent of recorded Type 1 group abusers, who target victims based on their vulnerability, were Asian. The Office for National Statistics estimates that 7.5 per cent of the UK’s population are Asian.

17 per cent of Type 1 offenders were white, compared to 86 per cent of the UK population.

There were six recorded cases of Type 2 group abuse.

100 per cent of recorded Type 2 group offenders, who abuse children because of long-standing paedophilic interest, are white.

Type 1 groups tend to be larger: the majority involve groups of four abusers, compared to Type 2 abusers, who tend to act in pairs. That means in terms of raw figures, there are more Asian men carrying out group abuse than white men (229 compared to 70).

It’s worth saying that CEOP itself doesn’t believe this data is a comprehensive picture of group abuse and exploitation in the UK. They warn against drawing too many conclusions from this data.
What about exploitation by lone abusers?

Abuse by lone offenders is much more common than abuse by groups. According to CEOP, “25 [police] forces identified a total of 2,120 lone perpetrators involved in either suspected or confirmed cases of non-familial contact child sexual abuse in 2012. In comparison, all 31 forces reported a cumulative total of 65 group and gang associated offences.”

CEOP’s report doesn’t include data on the ethnicity of lone child abusers, and the government doesn’t publish comparable information.

But we do know that while Asian men are disproportionately represented among group abusers, this is not the most common type of child sexual abuse recorded in the UK.
FactCheck verdict

Self-evidently, sexual abuse of children and young people by groups of men – including Asian men – happens in the UK.

According to the best available data, Asian men make up 75 per cent of “Type 1” group abusers, who target children and young women because they are vulnerable.

But white men make up 100 per cent of recorded “Type 2” group abusers, who target children because of a longstanding paedophilic interest.

From the information available, we know that actual number of group abusers who are Asian is around three times higher than the number of group abusers who are white.

However, it’s worth remembering that child sexual abuse by lone offenders is more common than abuse by groups. What we don’t know is how many of those lone offenders are white or Asian. We should be wary of drawing too many conclusions.
 
Your link rather supports Robinson's views, as we know that "Type 2" has always been around and will always be around, but that "Type 1" (i.e. grooming gangs) has hugely increased recently, for the reasons the article implies (the same reasons Tommy is shouting).


Here's the whole article:


It doesn’t support his views in the slightest, his view is that Islam is incomparable with Western life. He’s a vile opportunist who leaps on anything that he thinks will further his Islamophobic agenda. Grooming gangs are merely his latest weapon. The fact that this particular form of sexual exploitation is dominated by Asian men, doesn’t alter the fact that well over 90% of sexual abuse crimes are committed by white U.K. born men. Including virtual all acts of genuine paedophilia.
 
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